And so begins the Vote-kick abuse

[Masekase_Hurricane]

I think the person who is getting kicked should have a pop up message. The message should indicate who started the vote and a box saying do you think the decision was wrong yes or no. If yes it should open up a report form to a gm if no it close the message. At the bottom of the message it should state if found to be abusing this you could be suspended or banned.

Also on the message it should indicate the people that voted kick too.

[Eldryan]

For me the vote kick system is the worst thought out part in this game ,for me it's not loot like the op but more to do cut scenes. I have 2 level 50 characters and neither of them have actually seen the last 3 main cut scenses not just the story as I know you can view that at your inn room, but the fighting parts first of it just caused a major row with half the raid this was before the vote kick was introduced and the rest kept silent and the last time last week I was threatened with being vote kicked by 5 out of the 8 as there was 3 of us wanting to see the cut scenes. so what choice did I/we have,I had already been queuing for close to 2 hours....as the fc I am in there are not many online at once and not the needed classes either.
...

For me now I am on the verge of just not renewing my sub after April (6 month sub) as I will not be threatened,bullied due to trying to actually enjoy the game...

Similar incident happened to me just before I decided to unsub from this game (it wasn't the reason I decided to unsub though). Saw a random call for help for the final story mission from someone whose been in queue for awhile, and I offered to form a 2 man party with them on my Paladin to make the queue time shorter. As I was talking with this player, he wanted to enjoy the final story and cutscene as well, so I told him not to worry, I'll be sure to wait on him when we do the run.

After a short waiting time we got into a duty, and the group we got in with were demanding a speed run (who seriously speed run PR nowadays was what I was thinking). I refused to participate, and whenever the player I was helping was in a cutscene, I would stand around and wait while the rest of them ran off ahead. Needless to say, name calling and general internet douchery occurred, and eventually they kicked me from the party since I was the vocal one standing up against them as they kept whining for their speed run. The other guy did stay in the run and completed it though, so I was satisfied.

[frostmagemari]

Thank you for your input on the vote dismiss feature. The dev. team is currently discussing countermeasures against potential misuses of the system.

Additionally, as stated in the 2.1 patch notes, any abuse of the vote dismiss feature is considered harassment. We ask that users submit a GM report should you come across any situation where the vote dismiss feature is being misused.

There doesn't need to be any discussion on countermeasures... Look at any other game with a -working- vote-kick system and copy the contingencies that they have.

Rule of thumb though...
1. No kick until someone's been in a dungeon for 10min (to avoid snap kicks on job/ilvl)
2. No kicking unless there's a 75% consensus (to ensure the majority of the group finds your presence a problem)
3. No kicking during combat, or for ~2min after combat (to avoid kicks between boss kill and loot distribution)
4. No kicking during loot distribution phase (to avoid people getting ninja'd out of loot)
5. No kicking during, or for ~5min after a character leaves cut scene (to avoid kicks in result of someone actually watching the game scenes)
6. No group can attempt a vote kick on a single person more than once every 10min (to avoid constant spam of the feature)

These are not difficult concepts...

Edit: and honestly, yes.. poor performance -should- be a viable reason for being kicked from the group. If you are in a dungeon, and a member of the group just auto-attacks and does no sizable damage in the run, or the tank continually loses aggro and gets the team killed, or the healer is never able to keep the tank up; You should be able to remove the problem party member because one person is wasting the time of everyone involved. I'm not saying everyone needs to be a professional, i'm certainly not, but there are players who don't know a single thing about how to play their class and just waste the time of 3 or 7 other people by causing wipes throughout the dungeon.

Sure, people might be a little upset that they were kicked for not doing the job they were brought in to do, but as long as you follow those five rules (that all other vote-kick systems follow) and the additional cut scene rule (Which really is XIV specific since they handled their cut scenes in the stupidest way possible), the amount of abuse will be negligible.

[Mettaur]

[Devil's advocate]: Apart from deliberate MPK, what you describe doesn't fit the 'kick' criteria. If his gear is good enough to pass the ilevel requirement (i90 accessories and i90 weapon means you can go in naked) then you shouldn't kick him based on wearing event gear, it's past the level SE decided is required. If he's only auto-attacking, it's not harassment as such; that argument could be extended to 'anyone not doing the best rotation is harassing me'.

Player performance and Player Gear are not one of the four options for kicking someone. Saying that their gear or perfomance amounts to harassment is not gonna get you anywhere with a GM.

[/devil's advocate]

Only issue with that is you can queue up with all your fancy gear, but once you get into the run you can change into whatever you want and drop below the gear requirements..

[Starrywisdom]

[Devil's advocate]: Apart from deliberate MPK, what you describe doesn't fit the 'kick' criteria. If his gear is good enough to pass the ilevel requirement (i90 accessories and i90 weapon means you can go in naked) then you shouldn't kick him based on wearing event gear, it's past the level SE decided is required. If he's only auto-attacking, it's not harassment as such; that argument could be extended to 'anyone not doing the best rotation is harassing me'.

Player performance and Player Gear are not one of the four options for kicking someone. Saying that their gear or perfomance amounts to harassment is not gonna get you anywhere with a GM.

[/devil's advocate]

Except for intentionally wasting the time of other players(time being the only non-renewable resource in life) is harrasement. Going in in a Zenith relic and level 1 crafting gear is circumventing game mechanics(the ilvl block) and is harrassing the other players. Deal with it.

[Kantide]

Funny story:

Last night I was doing Duty Roulette Pharos (ugh) and we had a healer (a scholar) who was horrible and we spent 35 minutes wiping on Siren. Well our tank just leaves so luckily I have my FC mate duty Q and he gets in to tank. Well the healer, still being a bad, complains were not killing adds all the while hes running into seargents and what not because hey, hes invincible right? (never once cast succor and said something about not being able to get more Lustrates (Doesn't know about aetherflow?))

Anyways... All this time I really wanted to vote kick him but I didn't.... know why? There is no option for kicking a BAD PLAYER!!!!! This frustrated me but I wasn't going to bail on the last boss and lose my tome bonus. Nope.

So anyways, with 15 mins left on the duty timer, he DCs!!! So now I can kick for offline, which we do and I have another FC mate queue up as healer and we one shot Siren (we got lucky with these random q's.

Moral of the story - Square needs to add a bad player option to vote kick... (just kidding!) The reality is that I faced 40 minutes of wiping on Siren because I wanted to be nice.

[Zigkid3]

They should've made it so you can't kick people doing loot rolls.

[Runalong]

Same crap that started happening in WoW and which make me extremely wary of joining any group that consisted of players from the same guild. Wasn't uncommon to get kicked as the final boss was about to die or just before it so that a party member was guaranteed the loot or alternatively they could invite a friend.

It would be helpful if you could see FC tags while in instances/raids.

[Alistaire]

Can't see where his original post was but:

" Quote Originally Posted by Edenholt View Post
I wonder how many times such thing happens in the JP community. Not saying they're better than us, but we westerns know how to be 5-star douches."

Did you play FFXI? In the early years there were JP groups that camped mobs they needed NOTHING from, solely to prevent NA people from getting the loot. And *we're* douches?

[Grym]

How about do it like in WoW?

When engaged in combat or when an item is being rolled, you cannot vote kick.