Paladin - the lack of identity

[Kitru]

You know it would be awesome if Shield Swipe wasn't a complete waste of TP and pacification actually worked on any boss. I mean hell if you don't want to let pacification work on a boss, CHANGE IT TO SOME OTHER DEBUFF.

Or leave it as Pacification and just add a x3 high enmity modifier to it. I don't believe that it interrupts combos, so it's safe to use immediately and, by having it actually generate appreciable enmity at a steep cost reduction, you'd actually *want* to use it rather than just take it off of your bar completely.

I've said it before but I think it bears repeating here: PLD also needs a second t3 combo that deals equivalent/possibly slightly better damage compared to RoH without the high enmity modifier. An OT WAR has the option to use standard enmity attacks so that it can contribute effectively without riding the MT's ass. An OT PLD is pretty much screwed on that account because it only has 1 real combo because RoH has better average damage than Riot Blade. PLDs need a tier 3 attack for Riot Blade so that PLDs can, at the very least, have something to use for damage purposes that doesn't have a high enmity modifier; it doesn't even need to have any other secondary benefit other than not having the high enmity modifier.

Now, as to the OT and "PLD is lacking its traditional identity", PLD does actually use magic (Hallowed Ground is, most definitely, magical; CoS is assuredly a magical ability and Spirits Within/RoH have a magical feel to them given their visual effects; Flash actually uses MP). Your issue is more that it doesn't *effectively* use White magic in an *explicit* manner (e.g. cast Cure as an actual useful heal as part of its fundamental playstyle). PLD already has a much more magical feel to it than WAR does. You simply want it to be more *explicitly* magical, which isn't really needed given PLD's current performance and the existing aesthetic being plenty sufficient, imo.

The bigger "problem", as I see it, is that PLD gets CNJ as a CC class but gets so little out of it (pretty much just Stoneskin). Of course, they don't really *need* to get all that much out of it given their baseline performance, so it's not a *real* problem.

[Paikis]

I've said it before but I think it bears repeating here: PLD also needs a second t3 combo that deals equivalent/possibly slightly better damage compared to RoH without the high enmity modifier. An OT WAR has the option to use standard enmity attacks so that it can contribute effectively without riding the MT's ass. An OT PLD is pretty much screwed on that account because it only has 1 real combo because RoH has better average damage than Riot Blade. PLDs need a tier 3 attack for Riot Blade so that PLDs can, at the very least, have something to use for damage purposes that doesn't have a high enmity modifier; it doesn't even need to have any other secondary benefit other than not having the high enmity modifier.

As long as the average potency of the entire chain is (slightly) less than the Halone combo there's no reason not to add a third ability in. This would probably entail a reduction in the potency of Riot Blade, though this would obviously be compensated for by the third ability doing higher damage.

The devs have just put a lot of work into balancing the two tanking classes, any third ability would basically be limited to damage only so as not to throw this balance back out of whack.

[PiedPiper]

You know it would be awesome if Shield Swipe wasn't a complete waste of TP and pacification actually worked on any boss. I mean hell if you don't want to let pacification work on a boss, CHANGE IT TO SOME OTHER DEBUFF.

What a useless ability...

Shield swipe isn't a waste of tp, its the opposite, it is a tp regeneration tool. Any gcd druing which you use Shield Swipe you A) Deal a high potency attack and B) regenerate more TP than you consume. Shield Swipe is our invigorate or umbra ice. Using it consistently over time keeps your tp pool full much longer than you would other wise.



All they need to do to make Paladin feel more magical is to add Magic Damage to our swords. IF you go and full meld a i70 set with mind, you can actually get to about 320 Mind. As a whm, with 320 mind, you cure for 620ish with an i80 weapon. On paladin that same cure cast with the same mind only hits for 310 or so.

Add magic damage to our swords (40ish would be about 2/3s a real healer, so it'll still be weaker than whm) and poof, we have healing worth using without massively powering up the class. It would be a new and interesting mitigation tool that actually required us to manage our resources and use riot blade even in single target fights.


All they need to do is give us magic damage on our swords. No abilities need to change, no new abilities need to be added.

[Brannigan]

Delete Awareness, Add a third hit to Riot Blade, Improve Shield Swipe and Cover, and add a big reason to use up MP. Paladin is different from other melee classes in that it has a relatively large MP pool and a way to regenerate it! Unfortunately, outside of a few AOE situations and spamming stoneskin, natural MP regen can take care of all your MP needs. If there was more focus on using MP as a secondary resource, paladin would stand out a bit more. One of our defensive CDs (Bulwark or Rampart probably) could be turned into a toggle that rapidly drains MP like bard songs. The same could be done with cover or whatever.

Increased magic damage on swords would help a lot too, though I'm not sure they want us actually mashing on Cure I.

[Kaonis]

I agree with the Op here. It's silly that CNJ is the requirements for PLD, yet you can't utilize any of the spells. At best there's a few chances if you're OT to toss out a stoneskin to help a little bit, but PLD's trying to cast and do anything but the 1 -> 2-> 3 boring combo spam are just gimping themselves.

After the WAR adjustments I've shelved my PLD for pretty much this reason alone, it's boring to sit there and hit 3 buttons and a cool down every once in a while. It really feels like PLD wasn't thought out and CNJ sub was done just because PLD's usually have white magic.

[Pesmergia]

It's silly that CNJ is the requirements for PLD, yet you can't utilize any of the spells. At best there's a few chances if you're OT to toss out a stoneskin to help a little bit, but PLD's trying to cast and do anything but the 1 -> 2-> 3 boring combo spam are just gimping themselves.

After the WAR adjustments I've shelved my PLD for pretty much this reason alone, it's boring to sit there and hit 3 buttons and a cool down every once in a while. It really feels like PLD wasn't thought out and CNJ sub was done just because PLD's usually have white magic.

War isn't much different. PLD is still a better tank. Hallowed Ground vs Holmgang, no brainer. PLD still has more mitigation tools. An OP stun not on a cooldown, and a silence.

PLD was designed more for single target threat, which is why 123 over and over. With all the tools PLD has, if they buff PLD they will be overpowered, honestly I think in their current state they are overpowered.

[Lucke]

Maybe if SE got rid of the more *ahem* limited usefulness abilities, they could replace them with more Paladin-ish ones.

PLD are supposed to be holy warriors (sorta), why not instead of Awareness, give them Enlight. They bless their weapons with the light element and do extra dmg. Not alot, like 10-25dmg each hit. How about adding another WS after Riot Blade that uses MP instead of TP? Or maybe both?

I think with more "Light" effects, PLD will seem like they are more magical tanks.

[Omagana]

Does anyone know btw if any of the paladin abilities do magic based damage? Like Circle of Scorn or maybe spirits within? Just curious.

[Warlyx]

Does anyone know btw if any of the paladin abilities do magic based damage? Like Circle of Scorn or maybe spirits within? Just curious.

nah all physical , same as brd venomous bite or windbite ...

Paladin lacks white magic/skills

new 3th skill combo that make the next cure heal the paladin for X% more (100%? , 150%?) or put a debuff on mob , ever1 that hit the target gets healed (drain samba / seal of light ect)

give shield oath a dmg proc on blocks (reprisal FFXI )

sword oath is our "enlight"

a new AOE that does dmg and heals the party (utility)

[Brannigan]

...

Judgment of Light effect would be pretty awesome for a 3rd hit to Riot Combo. It'd be something that helps and that paladin can do when they don't need hate, but isn't necessarily a must-have effect.