SE it's time for A new Job Please. (Tank)

[Rochetm]

I have always been a Mnk/Nin/Sam/Pld fan. Over the years I have had 4 different FFXI accounts. Every one of them I played Mnk/Nin/Sam/Pld. If they made Nin or Sam a tank in FFXIV I would be picking a new main. Sadly current Pld is more like WoW War which isn't that fun for me.

FFXI and WoW have done evasion tanks very well. WoW now has two evasion/dps oriented tanks and balance issues are not even close to what we dealt with for months (War vs Pld).

[Naberrie]

As someone who had a 75 NIN tank in FFXI, I can't see the job working in FFXIV without such significant changes as to alter it completely. In a normal PT, NIN could easily manage to hold hate on one mob and not get hit if the tank was skilled. But anyone who's played it knows how messy it could get if you had an add, or a badly timed pop, and you had to try to manage 2 mobs. Forget 3 or more that you typically have in FFXIV. No matter how high your evasion is, if you have multiple mobs swinging at you, your shadows are going to go down faster than you can recast.

Most likely, IMO, is a parry/evasion tank not built on shadows. Something with high defense, moderate damage, but has defensive cool down skills that generate hate based on not getting hit. Basically pissing of the mobs because they can't hit you. The more they miss, the more hate you generate. Give it access to PGL for Featherfoot. Personally, I'd make this job SAM, with some insanely awesome looking samurai armor for its AF.

OH, and give an exclusive mount to the job at 50.

[SpookyGhost]

I wasn't talking about this game, and they clearly aren't healers in this game regardless so I'm not sure why you felt the need to respond to me with it.

Ok. Apparently I need to explain this further. Paladin's are "holy" knights, chosen to be protectors of their subsequent homelands (Are we following so far? Key words thus far incase you've already lost track: "Holy" "Protectors"). Any sort of healing, in any sort of game, is typically based around the power of using holy energy and the power of the Earth, this directly relates to Paladin's sole purpose. White Magic, in the Final Fantasy universe, is used by Paladin and is the magic type most used by White Mage (Cure, Curaga, Holy, etc.). A White Mage uses a staff to channel the White Magic, a Paladin uses his sword (you'll notice that every time a Paladin uses Cure or Stoneskin, the tip of their sword glows). Typically, a Paladin will be a Tank who can use some White Magic. I've never seen a game where a Paladin just sits on the sidelines and acts as solely a healer.

So, summary incase that was too many words for you: Paladins = Holy Protectors. Holy = White Magic. White Magic = Curing magic. Paladins use curing magic.

[indira]

you wont see a DPS tank other wise thats the OP tank and the only tank people will invite for events.

each job has one role only, the so called armory is garbage in ARR.

[Aicasia]

Paladins use curing magic.

You didn't need to explain anything further, or be as condescending as you were. What you needed to do was read and understand what I was saying. Not only was it not a question, but had it been one it would have been rhetorical. You're also assuming I'm talking about final fantasy specifically, which I wasn't (which you then continued to ignore despite me specifically telling you). It was a general statement about the fantasy genre as a whole and the miscasting of the Paladin archetype.

EDIT: You know what? I'm not even going to call you on it. I don't care if this is quoted before the edit. I know what I said and I stand by it, but I won't call you on it.

[SpookyGhost]

You didn't need to explain anything further, or be as condescending as you were. What you needed to do was read and understand what I was saying. Not only was it not a question, but had it been it would have been a rhetorical one. You're also assuming I'm talking about final fantasy specifically, which I wasn't.

But no, that's OK. You go ahead and talk down to me. I wouldn't want to stop you from feeding your obvious complex. I'm not one to stand in the way of delusion.

so I'm not sure why you felt the need to respond to me with it.

Because I was the one who felt the need to be rude first, obviously. I also just explained EVERY PALADIN EVER not just specifically in Final Fantasy. Seriously, look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paladin Also, your question wasn't "rhetorical", it was a thought you had ("Hm, that's strange, why do Paladins heal?") which would have been answered in 5 seconds if you chose to Google it or use your brain and figure out what I meant by my first post. It's also sort of annoying that you're comparing the job of being "a tank" with an actual, real life tank. Do you know any tanks in any RPGs or MMOs that do one insane burst damage hit every little while and then nothing else in between? What is the point of having a tank who both mitigates damage and can act as a DPS? Why would you use the other tanks, at all? Our JOB is to hold the boss and take as little damage as possible, not to output super max deeps. The closest you'll get is Warrior with Unchained and Berserk in FF14.

I honestly don't have any complex, if you weren't such a ding dong to my initial response I would've replied and explained calmly. But your response to any opposition is obviously "HURRR DURRR THEYRE NOT HEALERS WHAT ARE U TALKING ABOUT OMG GO AWAY", and on top of that you ignored the actual information in my second post and just went back to "Nah, obviously you're only talking about FF14 with this". Just. Christ.

[Gesser]

Samurai, Mystic Knight, or Dark Knight.

[Aicasia]

Because I was the one who felt the need to be rude first, obviously. I also just explained EVERY PALADIN EVER not just specifically in Final Fantasy. Seriously, look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paladin Also, your question wasn't "rhetorical", it was a thought you had ("Hm, that's strange, why do Paladins heal?") which would have been answered in 5 seconds if you chose to Google it or use your brain and figure out what I meant by my first post. It's also sort of annoying that you're comparing the job of being "a tank" with an actual, real life tank. Do you know any tanks in any RPGs or MMOs that do one insane burst damage hit every little while and then nothing else in between? What is the point of having a tank who both mitigates damage and can act as a DPS? Why would you use the other tanks, at all? Our JOB is to hold the boss and take as little damage as possible, not to output super max deeps. The closest you'll get is Warrior with Unchained and Berserk in FF14.

I honestly don't have any complex, if you weren't such a ding dong to my initial response I would've replied and explained calmly. But your response to any opposition is obviously "HURRR DURRR THEYRE NOT HEALERS WHAT ARE U TALKING ABOUT OMG GO AWAY", and on top of that you ignored the actual information in my second post and just went back to "Nah, obviously you're only talking about FF14 with this". Just. Christ.

OK, I can see why you'd find my initial response rude, but you didn't respond with anything other than paladins in final fantasy in either post. Nor did you answer anything in that post other than taking the low road and dropping down to my supposed level.

I saw what you posted in your second post. It's there in a quote. You're talking about White and Holy magics, but then go on to focus on White magic only, barely relating it to Holy magic. Paladins are holy people, they wield the light to smite down unholy enemies. They are not traditionally depicted as healers. In fact, I didn't bring up anything about wondering why they heal. It was a comment on their miscasting as healers in most fantasy games these days. They aren't healers. They wield the same magic as priests, and CAN heal, but that is not their primary purpose. It has NEVER been their primary purpose. So no, you didn't answer the question I never asked, try again.

And I don't care if my comparison annoys you, it's factual. I never said I wanted a tank that could do massive DPS, but that doesn't mean that there has never been a tank class capable of it. And yes, I do know of tanks in MMOs that do insane burst damage, as well as pretty impressive sustained DPS (and no, it should NEVER be on par with actual DPS, because for some reason you think that's what people want). The most obvious one is the Blood Death Knight. And yeah, it's stupid overpowered when it gets gear. That's Blizzard's fault though, they balanced it poorly.

But again, I don't care if they release a kind of tank that can do decent damage. I don't like tanking in hotkey combat games, it's not rewarding.

So don't get all on my case just because you think you're right. I'm willing to say sorry for coming off as rude in my initial response, but now I really don't care. You didn't give me any reasonable explanation beyond what I already knew, and what I already know is clearly not what I needed, otherwise we wouldn't be having this back and forth right now.

Paladins are not predominantly healers. They never were, and now they have ended up as such more often than they are shown as the righteous warriors and defenders of the light that they originally were. I don't care and I know why. I worded my original post poorly. It's not "I don't understand why", it is "I know why, but I don't really get why it caught on". That's why it was not a question, and if it had been one it would have been rhetorical.

I don't really have anything against you, but its obvious neither of us is capable of taking the high road. So I laid everything out, and I will read any response you post and consider it, but I won't be responding because this is going to get both of us banned or some crap, and I like my posting privileges. So feel free to respond, civilly or not, but don't expect a response. You can take that as you winning, or me running away. I don't care, because I've said my bit and you aren't likely to change my mind unless you post something so brilliant you reach a state of nirvana and Buddha himself likes your post.

[Gesser]

It's okay, I reported SpookyGhost for demeaning you.

@SpookyGhost, please shape up your behavior for the future.

[Arkista]

Snip.

Thanks for this I will read through it.

If we had a variety of Tanking Jobs then maybe players could play one they find appealing. And then that would decrease Queue times overall.

I'm all for Lancer Gaining Templar as a tank Job from the class.

It has a good number of defensive abilities that can be modified to be more effective for the Job itself, including a stun, a dedicated slow, a Parry Buff, and a Self-Heal skill.

Templar sounds great coming from LNC.

you wont see a DPS tank other wise thats the OP tank and the only tank people will invite for events.

each job has one role only, the so called armory is garbage in ARR.

We don't have to have a "DPS Tank" like so many people keep saying. The point is to add a new Tank Class that other people might find enjoyable and by doing so it should lower the Queue time for DPS. It doesn't have to be an OP tank. Even then before SE buffed WAR I never seen one in CoB it was always PLD, Not just that but we have things called Duty Finder so beggars cant be choosers.



Anyways Lots of good positive post, Maybe SE will listen and do something about it. And give us new Tank Job when they give us Musketeer. The only other way to get pass long Queue times is to go PLD/WAR or make party on server.