For the love of .......

[Cons]

You're essentially criticizing newbies gameplay and experiences and there is no valid reason that can justify it.

Most of the best moments playing any game ever are discovering after a fail, the same with real life, its experience and very important for growth.

"why should I waste my time with people who havnt taken time to view the fight beforehand?" - Because this is a game and we all have different ideas of what we want from it.

Nobody goes into a dungeon/run purposefully to fail, but threads like this might make them want to.

Oh and when your kids are born, please show them how to win at everything without them learning for themselves, its a healthy way to parent, honest *wink*

[Ahzarhuuk]

Some people learn better by doing than by watching.

[makii]

All this crap ruined the total joy and beauty of the very first day of the patch, when so many people signed on the instant servers went back up, found the first primal they could unlock and dived right in via DF, everyone being as cold as possible to it. Wiping over and over, having fun while doing it because the mechanics were getting figured out step by step, talking all the way, hashing out ideas and strategy -- you know, playing the game. I freaking loved that first day of 2.1 and how all the pompous crap flew right out the window when the most elitist tool was forced to be just as green as anyone else. Warmed my cold heart.

Best post in here.

[Hayward]

The attitude in the original post is BG Syndrome at its most vile. Ripping on new players who want some guidance is about as low as it gets for an elitist aspirant. I don't tend to go into a fight like Extreme Primals blind. I do check some YouTube videos just to see what I'm getting into and if there's anything to watch for. However, none of that serves well as far as actually getting the timing down and adjusting how you play your job to the fight.

A question: How does it feel to be on third base and convince yourself you hit a triple?

[Moontide]

Newcomers being frowned upon is the very definition of elitism.

[TeganLaron]

When you all got your Drivers licence did you practice on a simulator ? Did you watch a video ? Did you read a book about driving ? Or did you jump right in a car and start driving ? When you all took a test in school did you all research the subject at hand ? Did you read a book on the subject ? Or did you just take the test with no knowledge of the subject ?

People like you are the kind of fools we are talking about. It's a game. No one will suffer a serious injury or die if I don't research a fight, no lives will be ruined. Worst case scenario we wipe a few times, oh no!

You're also contradicting yourself as you refer to practicing on a simulator, but yet you don't want people to practice an instance first, they should just one shot everything ever.

Good job.

And I would never kick anyone for it either. I'm fine with communicating strategy and sharing information first hand. Hell I've done it for most of my runs. But if we take into account that DF really is random, it means that the ignorant players looking to discover first hand are going to be mixing with the players looking for the fastest route to clear a piece of content. Now, that does not mean the clearers should get upset at the ignorant for not knowing, but that also means the ignorant are willingly refusing to discover information that will help the party clear the run. Again, this isn't about the individuals experience, it's about the group experience. And while personal discovery is fun for you, it's wasting the time and efforts of those who actually know how to clear the run, making it less fun for them. Group content is about working together, and I don't see the advantage of ignoring what can only help lead to success for everyone.

DF is a two way street certainly, but slower traffic should move to the right if they don't want to keep the same pace.

I have to disagree with this. If DF was really this sleek way of beating content full of mostly highly competent, experienced, geared players, where, as you put it, "slower traffic should move to the right" then everyone would be using DF for everything. There would be no Titan kills being sold, no constant shouts in Mor Dhona for experienced groups for EX primals, none of it.

I think it is your own responsibility to expect the worst from Duty Finder. Yes, there is a chance you could be thrown in with 7 full i90 players who've beaten all the content the game has to offer, but it is quite unlikely. Duty Finder is mainly for learning a fight, and with no disrespect intended to anyone, is where people who can't get into a pre-made yet go to get more experience. Once you have that experience, go get a pre-made full of other experienced players.

You want people to research as to not waste your time, then why waste your own time using the most improbable method of clearing the content.

[Gramul]

The whole point of using DF is to quickly set up a group with total strangers. I just think it's courteous to go in prepared to help guide your group to success. And that includes research beforehand.
I won't hate people who don't do it, but I would only prefer they do. If simply for the sake of playing your role to the best of your abilities, for the sake of those who want to continue through the game.

If you really don't want to, you don't have to, but don't be surprised when you frustrate others for it.

[Ri_ri]

I posted without reading the thread.

Ultima is not the kind of fight you learn with videos. Same as Titan, you only win with a lot of practice.

If you keep dying because you don't know the fight then YOU are the problem, why must you inflict that on everyone else?

More often than not you see people who "knows the fight" dying (including me, I often fail at things that I've done before)

All the videos in the world won't help without doing it. It will probably hinder, since you won't be thinking with your own head.

And seriously, all wipes in Ultima (since the OP talked about it) happens at either Ifrit, the second Freefire or the last orbs. How a video can help at those parts?

[Artemiz]

Oh, he definitely can blame other players. But they can also laugh at him all the way to the 90 minute timer.

Lets put it this way, if you think it's funny to waste the time of 7 people because you don't want to prepare for a fight as best you can then it says a lot more about you than it does me.

I don't really understand why people assume DF is just for practice, if you want to learn the fight by trial and error why don't YOU use PF and assemble a group of like minded players so you can have fun to your hearts content? If you keep dying because you don't know the fight then YOU are the problem, why must you inflict that on everyone else?

It's what my method is too. I was being sarcastic. The inability of a lot of present day gamers to learn how to play a game on their own without someone leading their hand through a video irritates me. An old gamer friend of mine wouldn't even touch game guides when he played rpgs. He liked the idea of discovering strats through trial and error.

What makes you assume people who would like other players to put in just a little preperation are "present day gamers"? The first game I played was Pong, doesn't stop me being frustrated by people who refuse to help themselves and as a result drag a whole group down.

Learning by trial and error is also perfectly fine in a single player game or with like minded friends. When playing with other people it's at least courteous and polite to have pepared a little bit, even if you fail, at least you tried.

Some people learn better by doing than by watching.

Actually that's the same for everyone, we all learn better by doing an activity but some people are just more prepared than others, which is what this thread is all about.

Newcomers being frowned upon is the very definition of elitism.

Being new isn't what's being frowned upon, it's refusing to put in some ground work before hand and going into an instance expecting to fail and thinking that's absolutely fine. It's not, at least try to win.

[Squa]

I agree with this thread. Lets take Titan EX for example. I have put about 6 hours in DF on this in the past few days, still yet to pass it. Gotten to about 30% after first pair of ads. Now, lets say I join a group, and someone says "First time here, don't know what to do!" - I can guaranteed there will be no kill in this group.

So, do I spend 60 minutes with random DF teaching someone how the fight works in something they could learn off a video? Or do I give them 2 chances to see how they learn, then either drop gruop or request that they leave?