How did the community become this toxic?

[NewUser]

I played this game in the Beta because I figured "sure, why not?" It's not as great as everyone seems to think it is and their forums will be complaint riddled just like this one.

Rumor has it that the game cost $200 million to develop. Did you feel that the game justify the cost? (graphics, performance, game mechanics etc. Class balance and content can be tweaked easily but not so easy for the core)

[Peptaru]

Yeah but I meant slow AND bad. The mages are ridiculously boring.

1. Summon pet.

2. Have pet kill while you read a book.

3. ???

4. Profit.

I played this game in the Beta because I figured "sure, why not?" It's not as great as everyone seems to think it is and their forums will be complaint riddled just like this one.

Some people like that, Summoner in FFXI was like that... Pet did things, the summoners themselves were a cure bot at best. Path of Exile has popular pet builds. Conjury in skyrim, oblivion and a few other games.

Forums will always be complaint riddled and there will always be someone there to tell them that they're wrong, stupid, or everything else sucks even when the person complaining is right. . . I think all you've described is that you don't like games like that.

[Gaist]

Rumor has it that the game cost $200 million to develop. Did you feel that the game justify the cost? (graphics, performance, game mechanics etc. Class balance and content can be tweaked easily but not so easy for the core)

I don't meta-game and speculate. All I know/feel is that if a game can't keep me interested enough to play during a free beta, I'm probably not going to be one of the early ones in, if I play at all. The game looks alright I suppose it's just that the world felt super dead. It felt like they used one color for the game, grey. The aiming system was clunky and unreliable, the HUD mini-map was nearly useless. I would have recorded footage of this but they paste your e-mail address in the background so they know who to ban for breaking the NDA. They even kept sending me letters asking why I wasn't playing. It was embarrassing.

Some people will enjoy it, others won't. I'm just saying, temper your expectations or you will be
mad.

Some people like that, Summoner in FFXI was like that... Pet did things, the summoners themselves were a cure bot at best. Path of Exile has popular pet builds. Conjury in skyrim, oblivion and a few other games.

Forums will always be complaint riddled and there will always be someone there to tell them that they're wrong, stupid, or everything else sucks even when the person complaining is right. . . I think all you've described is that you don't like games like that.

I enjoyed the hell out of summoner. This job plays nothing like summoner. You literally summon something, and then do nothing. With summoner you had to at least try to be competent. With mages, you really don't have to do anything but kick back and enjoy the free ride.

[GundamBaxter]

its because people get their relic and some level 90 gear and think they're hot shit. just remember. there is someone out there with the same exact gear with the same exact stats, and most likely knows how to play that class better than you. dont get a big head. be kind to your fellow gamers.. this isnt call of duty or halo.

[Duelle]

XIV/ARR should have been that, that would be moving forward.

It actually is. It's taken modern concepts and given them its own spin, and will likely build on those and go its own direction given time. It's not a 1:1 copy of WoW or any modern game by any stretch of the imagination, but has taken certain systems and used them well enough. That said, there's obviously room for improvement, but that'll come with time. I hope, anyways.

Look at the itemization of this game, XIV 1.2x mimicked FFXI and some other MMOs where items had value, but now, ARR mimics MMOs where items have zero value to it, I mean, I understand gear has 'set slots" in terms of programming, but some MMOs with Gear just..makes you want it. Nothing in ARR makes you "want" it because it'll just be replaced in the next update or right after you finish a quest.

Itemization had to be simplified for balance purposes. I'm also glad they steered away from crap like throwing job adjustments on gear, which highly reduces the chances of us seeing crap along the lines of on/off switches like Aegis/Ochain for PLDs and Almace for melee RDMs.

Seeing that transmog in WoW made me want and care for gear I didn't care about before, I'm sure I'll care about gear and want gear once vanity slots are implemented.

Not the same at all

It is actually exactly the same. You rejecting modern MMO design is no different than claiming that Skyrim should not exist, because <insert whargarble excuse about how RPGs should not have changed>.

Also not the same, especially considering most people actually like and still loved the older styled fighting games

It is also exactly the same because thsoe who like the older games *wait for it* will simply play the older games. I'm personally not into Guilty Gear because I don't like all the stuff that was added (dusters, roman cancels, fake roman cancels, etc). You don't see me demanding that Guilty Gear follow the convensions set by the older fighting games; I simply don't play GG and gravitate to something I enjoy more (like Melty Blood >.>).

If SE and Yoshida Naoki made the decision to make ARR using conventions and ideas taken from modern MMOs, we can sit back and enjoy the game, give them suggestions/feedback on how to improve the game within the philosophies and approaches they have chosen to implement, and if we don't like it, unsub and move on. Not whine about 1.23.

Speaking of Stagnation, ever notice how almost every new MMORPG whether it's mass produced Korean or Chinese MMORPGs or "brand new innnovative!" MMOs they tend to all flow the same and basically be the same game no matter what? MMO genre stagnated because if developers try to move forward, people will despise it because "It's not WoW" or 'why can't I talk to NPCs and auto level by not going into the overworld?' "where's my endless dungeon grinds and main story content you only do once but never again?"

It's not so simple. The majority of MMORPGs that have come out within the last 5 years all suffered from the same problems: poorly implemented ideas, lack of content, horrible imbalances, poor marketing and doing nothing to help retention rate (hell, SWTOR going the way it did was more because of those reasons over the idiotic "becuz it c0p33d w0w").

That said, like it or not there are features that have become standard in the industry, much like the super meter in fighting games. Among them stuff like group finders. The genre has moved away from rewarding no-life gameplay in favor of steady progression and gating content to further give a feeling of progression. A genre that once was very insular has opened up to the general public and that is something developers have to keep in mind moving forward. That's what I would call the evolution of the MMORPG genre. Others may call it a decline, but as someone who has benefited from the changes to the genre over the last decade, I've had no issues and enjoy ARR for what it is.

[Peptaru]

Mmorpg genre redefinement

The blues turned into rap, rock, r&b...
Classical music turned into thrash and death metal...

When you change a genre too much it turns into something unrecognizable. Rpgs are ceasing to be Rpgs. Change is fine, but a duck is a duck only as long as its a duck; Mmorpgs are the ugly duckling now.

[amnie]

More and more WoW players are moving in.

I still want to see a statistics on that. not a single game I've played in the last couple of years was this bad and you can't tell me this game has more ex-WoW player than SWTOR does.

[amnie]

The blues turned into rap, rock, r&b...
Classical music turned into thrash and death metal...

When you change a genre too much it turns into something unrecognizable. Rpgs are ceasing to be Rpgs. Change is fine, but a duck is a duck only as long as its a duck; Mmorpgs are the ugly duckling now.

with the difference that classical music is good and thrash and death metal are also good. (I actually think the other music genres you mentioned are good too, just not stuff I listen to :P)

MMORPGS aren't BAD these days.

if anything, I'd say you could compare this with the FANS of said music genres. the more popular the band, the more likely you are to be surrounded by douchebags that will slap you in the face when you dare to move when you go to a concert.

[Peptaru]

with the difference that classical music is good and thrash and death metal are also good. (I actually think the other music genres you mentioned are good too, just not stuff I listen to :P)

MMORPGS aren't BAD these days.

if anything, I'd say you could compare this with the FANS of said music genres. the more popular the band, the more likely you are to be surrounded by douchebags that will slap you in the face when you dare to move when you go to a concert.

I like it all, too. But Joe Schmoe from Idahoe.... Idaho, got caught up in the -oe, wouldn't be able to listen to thrash and pick out a symphony :P

I'm not saying redefining is necessarily bad, I just mean to say we won't be able to call them mmorpgs any more.

[Hrist_Valkyrie]

The funny thing is if they sat all of us in a field we'd all look at our phones or feet then say hi THEN promptly freak out.