A few ideas to improve the WHM from a SCH player

[BrodyAlgana]

God stop comparing WHM and SCH. its like comparing apples and oranges. Rather than change white mage again (more, etc). Make a 3rd healing class -make that one based on hots.

[BrodyAlgana]

Oh and also read other threads before you start a new one there are already tons of WHM are better/SCH are better threads.

[Vrmillion]

I think people are debating a lot of unnecessary points in this thread. Both classes are perfectly capable of fulfilling the "main healer" role. There's a lot of talk about WHM being the raid healer and SCH being the MT healer, or SCHs being able to handle more situations with their tools. However, the fact is, I have literally never run into a situation in this game as a WHM that I didn't have the tools to deal with.

WHMs are actually absurdly MP efficient. People just don't know how to utilize their amazing HoT skills, or don't use cure 1 enough. The only time I ever run OOM is if I need to res people a lot. WHMs are very mana efficient. Scholars are adept at mana restoration. There's a difference. WHMs are good at not spending a lot of MP to begin with. SCHs are good at spending a bunch of MP, but getting it all back every minute. Have you seen Adloquium's cost, with absolutely no way to avoid paying it as opposed to Freecure?

Also, Regen doesn't need to be changed. It's a 1050 potency heal, and benefits from Divine Seal. It's already the best skill that WHM has. Oftentimes I just let a DS'd Regen do all the healing for me for the next 21 seconds unless a huge hit comes in, like a Death Sentence. In which case, I only need to use a cure 1 instead of a cure 2 and save MP.

Even if you say, well there are no situations where a sch would need to adlo the tank, while embracing a dps, and throw a lustrate on the offtank (in the time it took the whm to cast cure 2), it doesn't change the reality of the situation. I can.

The whm has to either use a gcd to heal a single target or the entire raid (not counting cure 3 as the range comes into play). And therin lies the problem of threat and mana management, you have to either try to heal with cheap heals one gcd at a time or waste chunks of mp healing half the raid. Yes sch does get better mana regen and free heals but also the option of making smarter choices when less than the entire raid needs healing or various amounts of healing and/or topoff.

Well, yeah, a scholar could do that I guess. But then again, a WHM should always have Regen on the main tank, and on the offtank as well if he's actually taking damage. So if we were just talking WHM here, the tank wouldn't need an adlo because he had regen, the offtank wouldn't need lustrate because he had regen, and the dps could get a cure / regen of his own, totalling one GCD, just like your one Adloquium. Then back to healing the tanks and keeping Regen up. It's a 1050 potency move, is even bigger with Divine Seal active, and is also really really cheap for what it does. It's almost half the cost of Adloquium, and is far more viable to keep up continuously as a form of preventative healing than Adlo. If they're dying so fast that Regen won't save them, then your single Adlo/Lustrate/Embrace splitting healing across 3 targets isn't going to save them, either. Also note that Divine Seal is a 1min cooldown and every 2 or 3 Regens applied will be super-powered regens that tick for over 500.

When you play WHM correctly, you don't *need* to have the sicknasty Starcraft Korean APM reflexes to heal 3 people at once, because nobody's in danger of dying to begin with. And no matter how Korean you are, you still have to take the time to switch targets / hit buttons / watch your character do the animation to do all of those actions. Meanwhile, Regen is just tickin' away, not concerned with human error or animations in the slightest.

Also, a Medica is MP efficient when it heals 3 out of 8 people, and GCD efficient on any number of targets bigger than 1. You don't need to have it hit the whole raid to have it be worth the cast. Anything above 3 people, and WHMs start gaining MP value over SCH at an alarming rate.

Edit: I also can't believe people are bringing healing threat into the equation. WHMs have an aggro dump. Healing aggro isn't actually a concern for either healing class.

Edit2: I should also mention that since WHMs get a naturally bigger MP pool, I can spam cure 1 indefinitely at almost no cost on any target for any varying amounts of healing or topoff for non-emergency situations, which is almost all the time. It costs 133, and I naturally regenerate 105 MP every 3 seconds. So again, WHMs already have the ability to make "smarter choices" in healing. They're just different than a SCH's.

[Eriane]

WHMs are good at not spending a lot of MP to begin with. SCHs are good at spending a bunch of MP, but getting it all back every minute..

The cost of spells is irrelevant, the end result is that sch is still going to have more mana. Yes a whm becomes more and more mana efficient as gear gets better, being able to rely on cure instead of cure 2 is a big factor. But for every situation where your cure is the answer, the sch has physick and embrace.

Divine seal (a one min cd) regen on a tank in your gear.. sure about 500-510. Embrace from a similarly geared sch is 650-700 WITHOUT rouse. With rouse (also 1 min)the fairy alone is embracing for 1k and is controllable to reduce overhealing and/or heal another target. With fey, the fairy is healing over 1100 easy.

Once you have several regens rolling on people yes, it does start to outheal the fairy, but how many gcd's are you spending and how much overhealing are you doing? At that point I might as well rouse, fey whispering dawn in st healing fights just because I can and have an extra hot on the tank for 21 sec for free.

As a whm you may want to medica 2 then to add hots but it still suffers from over healing and cost.

the tank wouldn't need an adlo because he had regen, the offtank wouldn't need lustrate because he had regen, and the dps could get a cure / regen of his own, totalling one GCD, just like your one Adloquium.

As for saying if you have 3 regens rolling to replace adlo, embrace, lustrate... how did you know which dps would take a hit or are you implying rolling regen on the entire raid? Or using that gcd to cure/regen that dps? In which case your tank is only getting a preexisting regen heal. You had to use your gcd to heal the dps at the expense of the tank getting healed and hope that you at that moment had a ds regen rolling or more likely, rely on your sch. And aldo, embrace, and lustrate are on ONE gcd. Maybe 1 and a quarter as the fairy cast is slightly longer and lustrate is off the gcd.

As a sch you are still healing the tank and you sacrifice nothing to take care of the offtank or dps. (For nitpickers maybe a aetherflow charge if the dmg was severe enough that they needed the instant heal). As a whm, you can either choose one or the other, hope regen ticks, or try a cure 3 if its melee dps which is certainly not mana efficient.

Aldo and succor raises effective health, regen does not.

I should also mention that since WHMs get a naturally bigger MP pool, I can spam cure 1 indefinitely at almost no cost on any target for any varying amounts of healing or topoff for non-emergency situations, which is almost all the time. It costs 133, and I naturally regenerate 105 MP every 3 seconds. So again, WHMs already have the ability to make "smarter choices" in healing. They're just different than a SCH's.

Keep in mind you are at the top of the food chain, you have nearly 5k mana and enough gear that cure gets the job done. Your mana regen does scale with your mana pool. I certainly don't regen 105 mp every tick. And having enough gear that you only need cure isn't a smarter choice, but rather an option you have at your gear level.

If you need only a ds cure to heal a tank after death sentence, either your sch is very good or your entire raid outgears the content.

I don't think anyone is saying whm's are bad, or unable to clear content. And the raid heals are certainly in a class of their own. But as I've said before a few qol changes would help.

1:Benedicition is outclassed by lustrate. Moreso due to client/server issues/animation delay. A fix would be fine, imo a change would be better.

2. Fairy outclasses regen due to regen requiring a gcd per cast which I imagine is part of the op's point. If regen is too powerful to be off the gcd entirely then change medica 2. If we are to be forced to rely on hots for topup and small raid heals remove the burst and lower the cost to compensate.

[sharazisspecial]

WHMs are very mana efficient. Scholars are adept at mana restoration. There's a difference. WHMs are good at not spending a lot of MP to begin with. SCHs are good at spending a bunch of MP, but getting it all back every minute. Have you seen Adloquium's cost, with absolutely no way to avoid paying it as opposed to Freecure

What is the mp cost of Embrace and Lustrate?
Healing for zero mana is very mana efficient...

Whm does not have any constant free healing they use mana all the time compared to sch.

Why is sch forced to adloquium but the whm can get by on cure ?

Remember adloquium can crit shield for 2.5k+ which reduces the need for healing and migitates boss high damage skills.
Crits from cure 2 will just overheal. Overhealing is wasted mana.

1050 potency heal

Spends most of it's time overhealing.

WHMs are very mana efficient

Play both whm and sch. Try to heal,dps and res. Go oom as whm but remain near 100% mp as sch. Proof is in the pudding.

[JonFarron]

I think what they need to do is boost the chances of Free Cures and Overcures. Maybe a 40% Chance for Free Cure to proc while changing it to give either Cure I or Cure II a free cast instead of just Cure II to prevent so much overhealing, while Overcure procs whenever you get a crit heal (Which would be very easy to obtain with a Medica, so the standard OMG AoE heal rotation would be Medica->Cure III->Cure III again if needed and assuming you get another crit.). This would boost their mana efficiency a lot. Instead of spending MP and generating it back like a SCH, WHM traits will focus on not spending MP at all to begin with.

Shroud needs to scale with piety. Bottom line. As lvls get higher, Shroud is going to become more and more useless because of the set MP regen.

Presence of Mind should reduce cast time by 50% for 15 seconds, on a 3min CD. This will compensate for the lack of instant cast spells vs SCH and allow WHM to adapt to "oh shit" moments better.

[Avette]

When you play WHM correctly, you don't *need* to have the sicknasty Starcraft Korean APM reflexes to heal 3 people at once, because nobody's in danger of dying to begin with. And no matter how Korean you are, you still have to take the time to switch targets / hit buttons / watch your character do the animation to do all of those actions. Meanwhile, Regen is just tickin' away, not concerned with human error or animations in the slightest.

From your profile, I see you have loot from Twintania as well as a weapon from killing all the extreme primals, so it would seem that your raid is playing correctly, and not just you. While it would be great to assume the conditions you describe for every healer out there, unfortunately many of the rest of us have to heal through more substantial player error and sub-optimal tank gear, etc. For the purposes you describe, WHM can often not spare the GCD to use a regen instead of a more direct heal.

Edit2: I should also mention that since WHMs get a naturally bigger MP pool, I can spam cure 1 indefinitely at almost no cost on any target for any varying amounts of healing or topoff for non-emergency situations, which is almost all the time. It costs 133, and I naturally regenerate 105 MP every 3 seconds. So again, WHMs already have the ability to make "smarter choices" in healing. They're just different than a SCH's.

Again, this is a product of being overgeared and likely pertains to healing demands for a well- or over-qualified raid for current content. Having your efficiency be gear dependent to that extent makes the class itself internally imbalanced.

[Samsta]

It's no secret that every class in the game is reasonably efficient with the exception of white mages.

Yeah? it was a secret to me. Where did you pull that out? Saying that they are not efficient makes them sound like a shitty job that have no place in any group, which is not true, mp is perfectly manageable with good group, only if you have to constantly raise and aoe heal it might become an issue, which can be cured with mage's ballad.

[Avette]

Yeah? it was a secret to me. Where did you pull that out? Saying that they are not efficient makes them sound like a shitty job that have no place in any group, which is not true, mp is perfectly manageable with good group, only if you have to constantly raise and aoe heal it might become an issue, which can be cured with mage's ballad.

So what you're saying is that the solution to your efficiency problems is 1) stop playing with whoever you're playing with and play with someone who doesn't need to be healed as much, and 2) get a bard.

One of my initial arguments was that dependency on bards is absurdly lopsided in favor of Mage's Ballad over Army's Paean. You're making my argument for me.

[sharazisspecial]

Any WHM can finish the boss fight with a decent amount of mana if they spend most of it idle , only healing after aoe and tank killer attacks. While leaving the ressing to the SCH. Thats not the issue.
The problem is WHM has a cap on what they can do but SCH doesn't. Why? Having both jobs is optimal for most encounters, So why does WHM have a much smaller total mana pool to work with?

Whm has no mechanics that support having this disadvantage. Such as turning mana into utility.
If whm got shroud reduced to 1minute cooldown along with piety scaling. They would just spend more time healing/ressing or dpsing instead just spending time idle in boss fights.