Look what just happened in Duty !

[HeroSamson]

Its what I have been noticing with people on here, they win dungeons and think they are better than others because they got farther into the game than them, which they believe they are be all know all of those dungeons and because they got better gear they are better than that person who has nothing.

get over yourselves seriously I have seen crappy geared up people do way better than someone with awesome gear and i am telling you now gear does not make you better than anyone else.

[Xayoc]

Its what I have been noticing with people on here, they win dungeons and think they are better than others because they got farther into the game than them, which they believe they are be all know all of those dungeons and because they got better gear they are better than that person who has nothing.

get over yourselves seriously I have seen crappy geared up people do way better than someone with awesome gear and i am telling you now gear does not make you better than anyone else.

Commentary: Agreed, this one has seen many perform exceedingly well despite gear not because of it and has seen many i90 players perform poorly. The discussion is on kicking for lack of performance, not being undergeared.

Except you're wrong. It doesn't have to be specifically laid out as against the ToS for SE to punish you for it. You're effectively trying to punish someone for not being up to your standards in a DF group. Majority does NOT rule in this case. That is harassment, and that is actionable. Deal with it.

The main problem is you think because you have a majority, you get to make the rules. If this wasn't SE's game you might have a point. But therein lies the problem, it's SE's game, they make the rules, not you.

Objection: Again please point out where exactly it has been posted by a developer and/or community manager where it is against the rules to vote kick for poor performance. This has not been posted yet at all despite multiple requests. Unless it is specifically prohibited it is not against the rules and is merely your opinion.

[ispano]

Objection: Again please point out where exactly it has been posted by a developer and/or community manager where it is against the rules to vote kick for poor performance. This has not been posted yet at all despite multiple requests. Unless it is specifically prohibited it is not against the rules and is merely your opinion.

I keep telling you, it doesn't have to be. You can ask and ask and ask, have no such quote and still get punished for it. What good is a quote of nothing going to do for you then? Doing what you describe, is harassment, plain and simple. SE has been clear that they would rather let wrongdoers go than punish an innocent. Kicking someone because they aren't up to your standards, in a DF group, is harassment. He didn't ask to get grouped with you, you have no proof he does it on purpose. You have the problem, YOU leave.

SE has the discretion to do whatever they wish, they don't need specific rules in this case. All they have to do is see the harassment.

It's like that line you see in pretty much any games EULA/ToS. They can ban you for ANY reason.

[Xayoc]

I keep telling you, it doesn't have to be. You can ask and ask and ask, have no such quote and still get punished for it. What good is a quote of nothing going to do for you then? Doing what you describe, is harassment, plain and simple. SE has been clear that they would rather let wrongdoers go than punish an innocent. Kicking someone because they aren't up to your standards, in a DF group, is harassment. He didn't ask to get grouped with you, you have no proof he does it on purpose. You have the problem, YOU leave.

SE has the discretion to do whatever they wish, they don't need specific rules in this case. All they have to do is see the harassment.

It's like that line you see in pretty much any games EULA/ToS. They can ban you for ANY reason.

Commentary: Correct, but as a 11 year veteran of Square-Enix games, in this case it is not a bannable offense, especially since it is not done in a harassing context. Kicking someone from a DF group because they are keeping the group from clearing the instance is not harassment if it is done politely and respectfully. Kicking under these circumstances is not harassment in any way and is therefor not actionable.

Observation: By your logic, three of the four members of a group should quit because one member is sub-par. This seems more selfish on the part of the bad than the rest of the group

[ispano]

Commentary: Correct, but as a 11 year veteran of Square-Enix games, in this case it is not a bannable offense, especially since it is not done in a harassing context. Kicking someone from a DF group because they are keeping the group from clearing the instance is not harassment if it is done politely and respectfully. Kicking under these circumstances is not harassment in any way and is therefor not actionable.

Start looking at it from the point of view of the person you're kicking. You also forgot one small bit. You can be as polite as you want, but the issue at hand is this. You and 1 or more others have a problem with another party members performance. You don't want to continue with him, yet you refuse to bite the penalty to leave the group. You refuse to work with the person, but would rather just remove him(bypassing the "deserter" penalty no less), which is you rendering punishment on said player. The point here is you have a problem with them, they're not harassing YOU, not cheating, nothing of the sort, none of the valid reasons for a kick. Yes, it is harassment.

"There may be inappropriate conduct that does not fit into any of the above categories that may be considered harassment and as such would constitute an actionable offense." Food for thought.