Look what just happened in Duty !

[Elim]

If they wanted to let you vote-kick people for not being your tier of skill or because they could lot on the gear you wanted then they would have put that in as one of the reasons for dismisal that you have to pick.

Not being able to play their role, or purposely not playing their role therefore continuously wiping the group is what I am referring to. Some people could interpret that as trolling/harassment if the person in question refuses to listen to advice.

Once again I have never vote kicked anyone or plan to. I'm simply pointing out that it doesn't explicitly say this is against the rules. *shrug*

[ispano]

Not being able to play their role, or purposely not playing their role therefore continuously wiping the group is what I am referring to. Some people could interpret that as trolling/harassment if the person in question refuses to listen to advice.

Once again I have never vote kicked anyone or plan to. I'm simply pointing out that it doesn't say this is against the rules.

Like I said a bit earlier, the rule on harassment is open ended. It doesn't have to be 100% spelled out the way you want, if it did, there's would be far too many rules because everyone would want specific rules for everything.

[Xayoc]

Like I said a bit earlier, the rule on harassment is open ended. It doesn't have to be 100% spelled out the way you want, if it did, there's would be far too many rules because everyone would want specific rules for everything.

Commentary: This is precisely the problem. For this specific instance it is required that it be explicitly laid out so that the bads do not cause more nonsense for the already overworked Square-Enix customer service team.

Here is a piece where Yoshi speaks about it for the first time !

こんにちは。
Hello,
ダンジョン攻略中無断で放置する方がいます。 戦闘にも参加せず攻略不可の場合、こちらからその放置者に何もすることが出来ず 退室しなきゃいけません。 そうなるとペナルティが来るのはこちら。おかしくありませんか？ 過半数以上の同意での追放機能などが欲しいです。
There are players that goes AFK without saying anything. Because of this person not participating it’s impossible to complete the dungeon, and there is nothing for the rest of us to do but to leave. When that happens we’re the one getting the penalty, don’t you think that’s weird? I would like a vote kick feature.
コンテンツファインダー中に、投票などを通してパーティメンバーをキックする機能は、技術的には難しいものでは> なく、実装を予定しています。
To have a vote kick feature while using the Duty Finder is not hard to do technically, and we are planning to release.
ただし、気に入らないプレイヤーを故意に排除するといったように悪用される危険性があるため、 極力問題が起きないような仕組み作りに注力しています。そのため、具体的な実装時期については 確定していませんが、パッチ2.1に導入するかどうかを含めて検討しています。
However, there is a possibility of this feature being used wrongfully, therefore we are focusing to make sure these type of problems don’t occur as much as possible. For that reason, the release timing is not confirmed yet, we are looking into if we’re going to implement this in patch 2.1.

Observation: Again you fail to point out where Yoshi, Square, or any developer has said, 'vote kicking for poor performance is not the intended use for the vote kick function' or anything remotely to that effect. Until this is specifically prohibited and actionable it will be used by players that don't want to deal with wiping to easy content.

[Arragomis]

Ok so it was ok to vote kick me for standing up for a player and telling the party to let said person watch cutscenes? Or was it ok to vote kick the tank because he was learning his job while getting tomes to increase his item level? NO PLAYER should EVER have to experience this amount of disrespect for playing the game as its intended to be played. PERIOD. Nobody but me pays for my subscription, and therefore nobody but me should ever be able to dictate how I play the game..

[ispano]

Commentary: This is precisely the problem. For this specific instance it is required that it be explicitly laid out so that the bads do not cause more nonsense for the already overworked Square-Enix customer service team.

Except it's not a problem. Only people who think like YOU consider it a problem. If you use DF, your rules do NOT apply. Period. You don't get to tell someone that queue'd to do the dungeon, to meet up with overgeared players, that he can't do that dungeon and has to queue again. If he was able to queue, his gear met the requirements. So until you can prove he's doing it intentionally, you're wrong. Again, period.

This is why Party Finder was introduced. To help people set up groups with THEIR rules. You don't like that? Not our problem.

[MikoteAstra]

Except it's not a problem. Only people who think like YOU consider it a problem. If you use DF, your rules do NOT apply. Period. You don't get to tell someone that queue'd to do the dungeon, to meet up with overgeared players, that he can't do that dungeon and has to queue again. If he was able to queue, his gear met the requirements. So until you can prove he's doing it intentionally, you're wrong. Again, period.

This is why Party Finder was introduced. To help people set up groups with THEIR rules. You don't like that? Not our problem.

Well spoken seem some people just refuse to understand this ! Is a common sense, but aperantly they think they are gods in the game and can do what they want !

And what did those two selfish players achieved in the dn, except voting good tank for no real reason! After short time they left the dn because no other tank came! Basicly they unjustified voted a player and destroied the party. No problem for healer he can find a party in 5min why shoul not he abuse the system, me as an example i had to face such rude players and wait once more 1h for the dn!

Why didnt they have gave him an advice, why ddint they help him getting better in the dn if they tought he has poor skill, all this speaks how selfish they are! As if they ddint knew that they will meet with random people in the Duty Finder !

[Xayoc]

Except it's not a problem. Only people who think like YOU consider it a problem. If you use DF, your rules do NOT apply. Period. You don't get to tell someone that queue'd to do the dungeon, to meet up with overgeared players, that he can't do that dungeon and has to queue again. If he was able to queue, his gear met the requirements. So until you can prove he's doing it intentionally, you're wrong. Again, period.

This is why Party Finder was introduced. To help people set up groups with THEIR rules. You don't like that? Not our problem.

Objection: Kicking someone for FATE-grinding their class and being terribad at it is not against the TOS, period.

Commentary: The rules of the group are set by the group so if the majority of a group elect to vote kick someone for poor performance it is entirely in line with the intention of the vote kick function. It is not this one alone taking the action, it is the election of the group to cut a player from the team. It is not malicious not evil nor is it against the rules, a group is permitted to set its own rules and not be dictated to by bads.

How do you expect someone to get good at the dungeon if you are kicking them?

If the required level says they meet the required level to enter the dungeon, you have zero right to kick them based on gear.

Before everyone had nice stuff they did dungeons with normal gear and yet here people are judging because they got better shiny armor it makes you guys look elitist and sad.

Commentary: This one would only kick for gear if it an obvious dodging of the ilvl system (queue with BLM with Tank accessories). What is in contention is kicking for poor ability and or attitude.

[HeroSamson]

Its what I have been noticing with people on here, they win dungeons and think they are better than others because they got farther into the game than them, which they believe they are be all know all of those dungeons and because they got better gear they are better than that person who has nothing.

get over yourselves seriously I have seen crappy geared up people do way better than someone with awesome gear and i am telling you now gear does not make you better than anyone else.

[Xayoc]

Its what I have been noticing with people on here, they win dungeons and think they are better than others because they got farther into the game than them, which they believe they are be all know all of those dungeons and because they got better gear they are better than that person who has nothing.

get over yourselves seriously I have seen crappy geared up people do way better than someone with awesome gear and i am telling you now gear does not make you better than anyone else.

Commentary: Agreed, this one has seen many perform exceedingly well despite gear not because of it and has seen many i90 players perform poorly. The discussion is on kicking for lack of performance, not being undergeared.

Except you're wrong. It doesn't have to be specifically laid out as against the ToS for SE to punish you for it. You're effectively trying to punish someone for not being up to your standards in a DF group. Majority does NOT rule in this case. That is harassment, and that is actionable. Deal with it.

The main problem is you think because you have a majority, you get to make the rules. If this wasn't SE's game you might have a point. But therein lies the problem, it's SE's game, they make the rules, not you.

Objection: Again please point out where exactly it has been posted by a developer and/or community manager where it is against the rules to vote kick for poor performance. This has not been posted yet at all despite multiple requests. Unless it is specifically prohibited it is not against the rules and is merely your opinion.

[ispano]

Objection: Kicking someone for FATE-grinding their class and being terribad at it is not against the TOS, period.

Commentary: The rules of the group are set by the group so if the majority of a group elect to vote kick someone for poor performance it is entirely in line with the intention of the vote kick function. It is not this one alone taking the action, it is the election of the group to cut a player from the team. It is not malicious not evil nor is it against the rules, a group is permitted to set its own rules and not be dictated to by bads.



Commentary: This one would only kick for gear if it an obvious dodging of the ilvl system (queue with BLM with Tank accessories). What is in contention is kicking for poor ability and or attitude.

Except you're wrong. It doesn't have to be specifically laid out as against the ToS for SE to punish you for it. You're effectively trying to punish someone for not being up to your standards in a DF group. Majority does NOT rule in this case. That is harassment, and that is actionable. Deal with it.

The main problem is you think because you have a majority, you get to make the rules. If this wasn't SE's game you might have a point. But therein lies the problem, it's SE's game, they make the rules, not you.

DF is for random people and partial groups to come together and get something done. You don't get to waltz in and set arbitrary rules for randoms. That's what premade parties are for, not DF.