Garuda Extreme mode - no melee allowed. Thx SE.

[Zumi]

I have done it both ways. With all ranged, and with 1 or 2 melee. Its definitely slower with melee vs taking all ranged. Also less prone to dps deaths and wipes.

Tornado phase is the issue here with melee, assuming MT takes Garuda and Suparna tanks NW, and OT picks up Chirada and the plume goes SE. Melee follow offtank to burn down Chirada, healers and ranged in one of the adjacent quadrants. With all ranged you can immediately target Suparna as soon as Chirada is dead no need for the OT to even pick her up off the MT. Now then if you have melee you have to wait for the OT to provoke Suparna and she has to waddle herself through tornados often moving slow sometimes stopping to slipstream, for every melee dps you have you are losing dps up time when she is being dragged across the room. On top of that it is easy for melee to die to wicked whirl and have to be very aware when it will come out and run away when it does, more dps loss.

Stacking all ranged basically takes out much of the chance a dps will die because they can just stand in their quadrant and not have to worry about getting hit by anything but friction which is easily dodged. Lets you have almost 100% dps uptime on the adds in turn giving you much more dps time on garuda. With melee there is a lot more waiting for adds getting into position after provokes.

Overall the easy way to do it is stack all ranged which is why people shout for ranged only.

[yukikaze_yanagi]

I have done it both ways.With all ranged, and with 1 or 2 melee. Its definitely slower with melee vs taking all ranged. Also less prone to dps deaths and wipes.

Tornado phase is the issue here with melee, assuming MT takes Garuda and Suparna tanks NW, and OT picks up Chirada and the plume goes SE. Melee follow offtank to burn down Chirada, healers and ranged in one of the adjacent quadrants. With all ranged you can immediately target Suparna as soon as Chirada is dead no need for the OT to even pick her up off the MT. Now then if you have melee you have to wait for the OT to provoke Suparna and she has to waddle herself through tornados often moving slow sometimes stopping to slipstream, for every melee dps you have you are losing dps up time when she is being dragged across the room. On top of that it is easy for melee to die to wicked whirl and have to be very aware when it will come out and run away when it does, more dps loss.

Stacking all ranged basically takes out much of the chance a dps will die because they can just stand in their quadrant and not have to worry about getting hit by anything but friction which is easily dodged. Lets you have almost 100% dps uptime on the adds in turn giving you much more dps time on garuda. With melee there is a lot more waiting for adds getting into position after provokes.

Overall the easy way to do it is stack all ranged which is why people shout for ranged only.

and i care not. There is not a legit reason beyon slacking off to don't bring melee in garuda extreme. Shame the community.

[Rochetm]

and i care not. There is not a legit reason beyon slacking off to don't bring melee in garuda extreme. Shame the community.

I am pretty sure adding extra work for the healers, tanks and/or being lower dps would be good reasons not to being melee. I would never enter garuda em as melee if I had a ranged with even half decent gear. Time spent dodging tornadoes and WW while my buffs drop is time I could spend DPSing as ranged.

The better question is why should I add stress to my tanks and healers when I could be ranged and make the entire fight go smoother?

[Ri_ri]

The better question is why should I add stress to my tanks and healers when I could be ranged and make the entire fight go smoother?

This...

Personally if I'm making a party for a long, annoying fight like Garuda I'd rather do it in a "safe" way.

Edit: Melee's chance to shine in that fight?

That is pretty much how we do HM... OT grabs red sister (which in EM is always Suparna), DPS deals with green sister alone. I always thought Chirada hits way too weak to make that fight fun for off-tanking, makes a lot of sense if the intended design is not having a tank take her. Since now, the DPS who would previously just stand casting now have something to do.

I want to try it... hopefully I can find some people open to new ideas.

[YarozeX]

This.....

As a tank that has so much to worry about in this fight and after so many wipes, I prefer the ranged method. To many times have I had Melee DPS die to wheels when moves are on a pretty set rotation (if DPS is good).

[silentwindfr]

I have done it both ways. With all ranged, and with 1 or 2 melee. Its definitely slower with melee vs taking all ranged. Also less prone to dps deaths and wipes.

you just did point the heart of the trouble... the game as it is try to balance melee vs range...but instead to make melee have the most output and give us fight like this... the ranged dps can still deal far more damage than melee, why? because of the mechanic... ranged talk of stop cast when they need to avoid a skill... true, but some jobs like the monk, when they need to move for more of 4-5 second are screw. because they will need a total of 9 action (4 with perfect balance) for be back to full dps... when for a black mage it take... 1 action. more important, exept bard for them ballad... no caster DD have any mana trouble... if they play well they never run out of mp. when it happend often for monk and dragoon. you gonna say, yeah but bard have tp song... go find a bard that will switch from mp to tp song?

actually the game balance between melee vs range is soo much screw... that bring only 1 dps or no dps have become common. i have read recently (thanks reinhart) that yoshida think that the class the most balanced is the black mage... i was shocked and really angry by this statement. Black Mage, by a lot of it mechanic is by far, the jobs the most simple at play... you never have a trouble of mp (ice umbral or the skill that drain hp for get mp) it have the best burst of the game by really far (thunder 3 instant it's one of the most powerfull capacity of the game) indeed it rely on the proc and have little armor... but serioulsy all range have easy life in comparaison of the melee.

we need to make our skill in the corect order, we need to get position, we need to avoid all the melee capacity of the boss and finally we need to be close of the boss.... if we are away a bit....we don't deal damage. and i don't talk of all the self buff we must get for be able to deal decent damage that often run out when we need to move.

i understand why people act like this...it's natural, why bring a class that can screw the fight if not well played... worst that can deal less damage than other if you don't master it?

but you know...all of this was said while the beta...did they listen? no.... will they listen now? i seriously hope it... or i predict a really really dark futur for any melee jobs.

ps: indeed it's possible to do it with melee, but be honest, actually it's mandatory to bring max 1 melee dps for the limit mostly... exept if you play with your static... if you can decide what you will bring... most of the time mlee will come in last in your choice.

i did forget, SE can make the game working with many different strategy... it will be the player that decide which one is the most used... because it's easy and efficient. whatever SE do it will alwas the player that decide. even if it's wrong to act like this...

[Ryans]

you just did point the heart of the trouble... the game as it is try to balance melee vs range...but instead to make melee have the most output and give us fight like this... the ranged dps can still deal far more damage than melee, why? because of the mechanic...

I don't think I've been beat by a ranged class in any fight (as drg) since 2.1 or been able to any melee as blm for that matter. A good drg has more controlled burst damage than blm, believe it or not. Sure, if a blm procs thundercloud 3 times in 10 seconds it's going to have great damage, but that is beyond unlikely.

Also, as you pointed out, melee need to move around a bit during almost every fight. Given that, it is nearly impossible to run out of TP during a normal rotation as for every 2.5 seconds you aren't on the boss, you effectively gained 60 tp. Even for long sustained damage phases like Twintania pre-snakes, assuming you don't get put in conflag to maximize the amount of tp expended, you will still be in good shape if you use your invigorate correctly.