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  1. #21
    Player
    Gandora's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ul'Dah
    Posts
    267
    Character
    Cerulean Knight
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 50
    Let me tell you what from my own experience you should be expected to do, and what somes player will expect things from you but which you can't/shouldn't do. As well as the difference betwin WAR & PLD

    You did well to ask for advices, but I believe you did in the wrong place :3 as most people here will say "You should do that" instead of "You could do that."
    1st, you're a WAR and not a PLD, there is a difference betwin both jobs, and if you are asked by random players (from DF or PUG) to adapt to their PLD friend gameplay, you have a right to tell them off.

    Before I start to give you some advices I would like to describe the abilities one by one and give you some examples of situation where you can use them for a full effect.

    Here are you tools to make/keep hate:

    Defiance, when you are tanking it should alway be up, it increase your HP by 25% & drop your damage potencial by 25% "I know it sucks, but you're here to tank anyway." It also apply a full time bonus of 20% potency added to the cures you receive. The hate you generate is also increased dramaticaly.
    In other words, there is no reason to not use it when tanking.

    Overpower, while it seems incredibly weak (it is) its very usefull to take aggro on multiple target, this attack is also the 1st that will require you to place your mobs well, as it is conal. Be aware tho, its eating lots of TP when used.

    Butcher Block combo, is the one with the higest damage potency & hate generation, before 2.1 it was used the most to be efficient, since 2.1 they increased hate generation with Defiance so people use it less. However you're free to use it more then you were told by others people if you want to have an optimal hate generation or if you want to deal more damage.

    Storm Eye combo, is good when you have a PLD in the party as it will drop the resistance to slashing on its target by 10%, its also the combo next to Butcher block hate generation wise.

    Storm Path Combo generate less enmity than the 2 others and give a debuff on its target, which will deal 10% less damage. Use it in solo, in situation where the 10% less damage can be life saver, or in endgame where you need to share hate.

    Exemple: BC-turn 2, where you need to split stacks, you use SP as it will ease your PLD a little & not generate a big amount of enimity, our enmity generation being higer then a PLD in most situation, if you use butcher block the sphere will turn back on you instantly.

    Steel cyclone, is for me one of the reason I started WAR, to see the dude in the CS charge the Garlemald soldiers & throw them away like piece of **** was amazing! /back-on-topic: It is very usefull because of its hate generation & doesn't really require any placement, you go in the middle, you pop it & you enjoy. Only cons, you will need 5 stacks of wrath.

    Flash, is a cross class ability from GLD, costing alot of MP (251 @ Lv50) which make it unreliable (you will use it 3 time before getting drunk with ethers.) It is still usefull and can be on your barre. Being a cross class skill it wont apply blind when used by WARs. Its a 360° ability btw, which mean you use it in the middle of mob w/o requiring placement, alike SC.

    Tomahawk, is used to pull, it cost alot of TP and doesn't generate as much enmity as others skills, use it once or twice if needed but don't abuse it unless you pull multiple targets.

    Provoke, is another cross class ability from GLD, if you played FFXI you know the name of this ability, however FFXI provoke & FFXIV provoke are different. In FFXIV you use it when you lose hate directly to another player (DD or Healer) but using it on its own isn't enough as it will boost your enmity to the target temporarily (something like 1~2 sec.)

    Basicaly when you use it you need/have to do a combo on the target to establish/re-establish your enmity. A good example again is when you share enmity with another tank in T2, when the other tank have 3 stack, you use provoke & do Butcher Block to make an instant max enmity generation. when you will have 3 stack the other tank will/should do the same.

    Survival Tools:

    Foresight, is the 1st one you get, it will raise your defense by 20% for a short period of time. I am not gonna tell you when you can use it as it may cause lots of disagreement here.

    Inner Beast, will make reasonable damage, heal you for the exact same amount & will give you a buff reducing the damage you take. I personaly use it whenever its available on anything hitting hard.

    Vengeance, will give you a counter-attack/ripost effect & give you a -30% Physical Damage Taken unlike foresight. Again, as I don't want to make/create a debate i'll let you figure out when to use it.

    Convalescence, is again a cross class ability & is a must have. Increasing the cure potency received by a fair amount as well, its worth macroing with a /p & a <se.10> to say "Hey healer I used convalescence! Heal me now!" I personaly use it in "oh-****" situation, coupled with Foresight & Thrill of battle in the same macro. I say personaly because it is covinient to use that way for my own gameplay. Its not the way to go in 100% of the situations.

    Thrill of Battle, is amazing from my point of view, increasing your max HP by 20% & heal you for the amount increase, it is also very usefull in "Ohsnap" situations, where it can save your life (Mountain buster/Death Sentance) come to mind, basicaly the more HP you get & the more its effective.

    Bloodbath, give you back 25% HP back from an attack, needless to say that this skill is poor on its own, but it can be interesting if you macro it with either Vengence, internal release or Berserk, you chose!

    Holmgang, is from my point of view a defensive skill in every situation, some WARs will tell you to not bother with it and its where I will allow myself to be critical and say that they are bad WARs, nothing more.
    Before 2.1 it would bind you & the target, very usefull against Chirada (Garuda HM) & the Pudding Boss of WP (would save a life.)
    Since 2.1, it will pull back the target to you and for its duration you're bound but invincible. Note that even if the target resist its effect you will still receive the invincible buff. (tested on KB in CT.)

    Featherfoots, is a cross class coming from pugilist, while 15% evasion bonus seems minor but its very nice to have especialy in things like WP where you run with alot of monsters on your back. Alike Bloodbath, macro it with something else (Foresight?) to save space on your barre & increase the effect or unlike Bloodbath you can use it on its own, I personaly dont.

    Mantra: My PUG being only Lv15 I don't know, but it seems to be decent.

    Offensive skills, yes we've got a few. A shame that their duration is so low.

    Berserk: Will increase your attack by 50%, but will give you a pacification debuff when it wear off. A way to use it is to put Storm Eye damage debuff on your target, then use Berserk and go for Butcher Block. <-- this is a simple example.

    Now using it with defiance down or Unchained up: You can go for your storm eye combo again, then use your macro combining Berserk/Internal Release/Unchained if Defiance is up, no unchained if defiance is down & you chain with Butcher block.

    Note; Inner Beast damage potency isn't affected by Defiance, the same goes for steel cyclone. I have some fun with SC during WP when i'm at the stairs leading to the Tomberry King, I pop these macros and go for rampage.

    Note (2): I use a /p in the macro to remind the party about the pacification.

    Unchained, use it when you plan to do damage while you're under Defiance, but be aware the effect is short (remain 20 secs.)

    Internal Release, will give you 10% more chance of making crit damage, its self explanatory. (I personaly macro it with berserk and use said macro depending the situation.)

    Mercy Stroke, is good in my book but you will rarely use it if you fight a boss on its own, because the DDs will want to take it down asap and in most case they will LB it near the end, so its more or less you call.

    General talk:

    Now for the global talk about WARs, most people will say that you "should" put 30 VIT in your stats allocation, allow me to say that you "should" do what feel the most confortable to you betwin VIT & STR.

    I personaly have 20 VIT & 10 STR (for now), and I am looking to try to make a 30 STR to test it. STR will increase your damages and your parry % depending the cap you reach, this being said its better to look into STR when you start wearing a reasonable amount of allagan/AF Myths gears.

    As an AF1/DL wearer its safer to look into VIT for now I guess.

    Your tanking style will resolve more about spongeing damage with a big amount of HPs and will couple some damage mitigation (Inner beat/Storm Path/Foresight/Vengeance.) You will sometime be asked to drop Defiance to try and do some damages and to avoid taking hate (this happen when you DF titan/ifrit/Garuda HM as example,) a Top Tier WAR will have 6200+ HPs without defiance, don't be ashamed if you reach the 5500 as a secondary job.

    If you ever try to speed run make sure to wear at least full DL with a relic normal or +1/equivalent, test with WP first, take 2 packs of mobs (the 1st 2 tomberys, the 2 birds and the beetles.) This is a good test.

    If you can manage it & stay alive (assuming your healer know what he is doing as well) then you can start to look into it deeper.
    (3)
    Last edited by Gandora; 01-01-2014 at 11:55 PM.

  2. #22
    Player
    Richiealvian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    534
    Character
    Rinoa Heartily
    World
    Tonberry
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 70
    Thanks, that was comprehensive! I actually read the entire thing.. I just recently finished ifrit xm with my healer and man, it was very intense on the tanks. Someday maybe I'll get there and try it out as a tank.. I feel that healers have it good cause they don't die often. I'm now thinking of good builds for war, but probably I'd lean more no defensive as I'm going the 30 vit path. Tanks be tanking! Although, having a main stat as a secondary is good fun. I think I want to weigh vit and str equally when gearing up with slightly more leaning towards vit but getting as much str as possible.
    (1)

  3. #23
    Player
    Riyos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    133
    Character
    Akio Sakiro
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 60
    With trash pull with tomahawk, then overpower and main combo( HS->SK->BB) using flash after SK. After this continue to rotate main combo between enemies(and use overpower sometimes), checking sometimes the enmity bar. And yes, try to keep up maim always, it's a huge dmg/enmity buff, so why not using it? Cooldown wise, Foresight and Bloodbath have a short recast time (90 secs) but they aren't that strong(especcialy Foresight), use them with trash to mitigate a little bit of damage and recover some HP. Cast Berserk (possibly with Bloodbath, but use Bloodbath first, then wait 10 secs and use Berserk, so you will not waste 5 seconds of Bloodbath with pacification). Use the stun too, it gives you 5 seconds of reduced damage(a stunned enemie can't obv attack), so it's quite useful. About Defiance, use it ALWAYS, you can only switch it off with when you are finishing a weak enemy, so you can kill it faster.
    (0)

  4. #24
    Player
    Riyos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    133
    Character
    Akio Sakiro
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 60
    Fracture is quite good, it's like a 300 potency hit, but actually i use it very rarely, you can use it for an extra DPS, but yeah, it's not necessary. Never use skills without combo (SK BB etc.), avoid/stun aoes, mark enemies, comunicate with people and stuff like this.
    This is tanking before 33. After you have important skills as Inner Beast, Storm's path, vengeance and infuriate. IB heals you for 100% of damage, so if you hit or 300 you will recover 300, it's not that much, but yeah, quite useful. The important thing about IB is the 20% damage reduction for 6 seconds, that's a HUGE buff, it will be your main mitigation skill. Use it before big hits, or immediately if there aren't big hits.
    (0)

  5. #25
    Player
    Riyos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    133
    Character
    Akio Sakiro
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 60
    You recover your 5 wrath stack in 17-19 secs, so theoretically you have 20% damage mitigation for 6 seconds every 18 secs, so roughly you have a 20% mitigation for 1/3 of your time passed as a war, obv if you don't use overpower, flash etc. Then, storm's path, absorbs 50% of damage, and that's a shit, you will recover more or less 100-120 HP, BUT the enemy will deal 10% less damage for 20 secs, and that's a lot, the enemy you are fighting should have always that debuff on, especially if it's a boss. Vengenace, delivers an attack with a potency of bla bla bla, it's not that much, can be "good" with bloodbath for extra HP (more or less 15 HP per hit, WOW), but yeah, it's not special for that, it's special for a huge 30% of mitigation, it's a "oh shit" moment CD, and it's very good, also it gives you one wrath stack, so you can pop IB faster.
    (0)

  6. #26
    Player
    Riyos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    133
    Character
    Akio Sakiro
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 60
    Finally, Infuriate, it's good if you must use an IB but haven't enough wrath stacks, or to "extend" 20% mitigation duration(use IB->use infuriate->wait 6 secs->use IB). Then there are "minor" skills like Storm's eye(10% slashing resistance, good for boosting your dps), steel cyclone(moderate aoe damage, useful if you must use overpower/flash but don't have enough TP/MP), Thrill of battle(good for moderate auto heal or for preparing before a big hit, makes Stoneskin and Lustrate more powerfull, tell that to your healers), Holmgang(a big hit is coming and you know that you haven't enough HP? Use this, and then convalescence) and Unchained( dps boost, good for enmity and autoheal with bloodbath).
    So yeah, that should be everything you must know about tanking, sorry for bad english and welcome to the warrior side >
    (0)

  7. #27
    Player
    Gandora's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ul'Dah
    Posts
    267
    Character
    Cerulean Knight
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Richiealvian View Post
    Thanks, that was comprehensive! I actually read the entire thing..
    I am sorry for the long post, I love my WAR & I am passionate about it so I did not know how to explain the thing to you with shorter phrase. :3 I use to mock Kitru for his wall of texts, I did not do better on this one..

    Quote Originally Posted by Richiealvian View Post
    I just recently finished ifrit xm with my healer and man, it was very intense on the tanks. Someday maybe I'll get there and try it out as a tank..
    I personaly think its good to do that kind of event on your main job because of the stats, especialy when you have an important role such as healer or tank, but you're right to try and you have all of my /cheer here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richiealvian View Post
    I feel that healers have it good cause they don't die often.
    Talking about healers, the fact you level a tank now is very valuable for your main job, it will give you a different approach on the healer job. you will see things that can be annoying for a tank, situation like when the healer cast regen on you before you pull, or when they cast stoneskin while you pull, both things get the aggro back to the healer & get him killed in most case. It will improve your skills overall.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richiealvian View Post
    I'm now thinking of good builds for war, but probably I'd lean more no defensive as I'm going the 30 vit path.
    Quite simply, start with Darklight or "Armor of Light" from CT if you can, I know that DL is ugly but it will give you more accuracy than Armor of Light. Accuracy is important for a tank, DL legs giving you 43, yours may have to be capped around 460-470 to start with.

    The stats you may look into to start with are

    VIT > STR
    Accu > Parry > Crit > Det <-- You may need to ask other WARs around because again this is my personal choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richiealvian View Post
    I think I want to weigh vit and str equally when gearing up with slightly more leaning towards vit but getting as much str as possible.
    When you start gearing iLv70-80 its the way to go. However when you go for iL90 (Myths & Allagan) you will have more flexibility (1stly because you will use Feets & head slot where DL doesn't.) The increase in VIT and STR will be slightly superior from the gears at this point, as well as the global defense. One big loss you will notice as soon as you change from iLv70 to iLv80+ is the drop in accuracy from DL pants, AF2 or Allagan doesn't matter at this point because both wont give you any accuracy.

    You will hardly be able to match STR & VIT equaly because of the VIT bonus traits from MRD. Now (from a personal opinion again) If you plan to take over BC on WAR, you may need to focus on having at least 8k+ HP with Defiance on 1st (include use of food), once you reached that number of HP with enough accuracy then you can look into filling the lack of STR. Be aware tho, I think the cap of efficiency for STR (attack/parry% increase) are 405 & 445 (Can anyone confirm/give the accurate number please?)

    Last thing, the weapon, if you have acces to Dual Haken go for it.

    I thinks thats all I can say~ but again, don't take that for granted as it is my personal experiences, others WARs around may have different experiences to share with you and they may have better ideas/macro than me.

    Anyway, if you have any other question feel free to ask and i'll glady answer.
    (0)
    Last edited by Gandora; 12-31-2013 at 09:13 PM.

  8. #28
    Player
    Riyos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    133
    Character
    Akio Sakiro
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandora View Post
    Foresight, is the 1st one you get, it will drop the damage taken by 20% for a short period of time. I am not gonna tell you when you can use it as it may cause lots of disagreement here.
    Unfortunately it doesn't work in that way. Foresight increase your defense by 20%, and nope, that's not like 20% of damage mitigation, it's more or less 5%, so yeah, it's not that good
    (0)

  9. #29
    Player
    Gandora's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ul'Dah
    Posts
    267
    Character
    Cerulean Knight
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Riyos View Post
    Unfortunately it doesn't work in that way. Foresight increase your defense by 20%, and nope, that's not like 20% of damage mitigation, it's more or less 5%, so yeah, it's not that good
    Made a mistake because I was thinking of vengence when typing, thanks for the correction! I'll edit now
    (0)

  10. #30
    Player
    Electrowitch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    122
    Character
    Electro Witch
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandora View Post
    Storm Eye combo, is good when you have a PLD in the party as it will also increase their damage by 10%, this combo drop the resistance to slashing on its target, its also the combo next to Butcher block hate generation wise.
    A 10% Slashing resitance reduction is NOT Equal to a 10% Dmg increase. 10% less Reduction is about 1-3% more Damage
    (0)

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