If you are a WHM without Swiftcast, you are holding back your team at endgame

[Worm]

main reason is because he hasnt been doing any of the end game raids or trials yet. and no relic either so i guess he hasnt done titan hm too. :3

Eh not that I'm progressed at all in this game, but this is honestly an attitude you see at end game very often. The same way you get tanks who are control freaks or DPS hitting the bong between pulls you see this general need to be handled with kid gloves by healers. They tend to develop victim complexes and quickly get super defensive. That's why this thread is pretty funny, it's sort of an expression of that each of these healers have the skill but are arguing it's technically not required, it's just that every healer chooses to use it and it's the standard but it's still not required, please stop bullying healers.

It's the same kind of responses you'd see in a "as DPS if you tunnel vision and die on fights you're holding your team back", it's an inarguable statement but people still will come around to defend their class, like they're honorbound.

EDIT: I will say healers get a lot of undeserved blame thrown at them, but some of the mental gymnastics put on display in this thread (or any thread critical of any role) really have brought for a lot of the worst out

[HoroBoro]

"Wipe it up the healer's ego won't let them res!"

Healers don't have egos. We're just healbots during the day and at night...

T_T

[Shizato]

"Not my job", the perfect creed for cooperative play. Also what happens if a tank gets blown up through relatively nobodies fault? "Wipe it up the healer's ego won't let them res!"


I'd really be interested to ask you what you view as "required" cross class skills. Mainly to see you freak out more that people just won't let you have your way in this argument, but also because I'm curious.

if someone dies its either because they failed at avoiding avoidable dmg or the healer failed at keeping them/themselves alive thru unavoidable dmg - there is no other reason to die (barring computer/ISP/game failure of course)

ppl in this thread want to replace the players who fail at covering others failures instead of replacing those that fail to begin with...it just seems an odd stance imo and one i have NEVER come across in any MMO i have played...

as i said before i have NEVER been told that i would be replaced in any group i have been in for failing to cover for others failures...

im truly wondering at this point if everyone that has this odd stance in this thread are not just trolling?

[Axidrain]

Eh not that I'm progressed at all in this game, but this is honestly an attitude you see at end game very often. The same way you get tanks who are control freaks or...

instacast any skill. its a no brainer. theres no point not having it.

[Worm]

if someone dies its either because they failed at avoiding avoidable dmg or the healer failed at keeping them/themselves alive thru unavoidable dmg - there is no other reason to die (barring computer/ISP/game failure of course)

ppl in this thread want to replace the players who fail at covering others failures instead of replacing those that fail to begin with...it just seems an odd stance imo and one i have NEVER come across in any MMO i have played...

as i said before i have NEVER been told that i would be replaced in any group i have been in for failing to cover for others failures...

im truly wondering at this point if everyone that has this odd stance in this thread are not just trolling?

No one is talking about replacing you, but if you could have put out a res and stopped a wipe it's preferable than punishing the whole raid for one guy's mistake. If I had some guy start ranting out how it's not his job to battle res and the DPS should accept their mistakes and etc, etc, etc I'd boot him from the raid. It's just a hollow point.

instacast any skill. its a no brainer. theres no point not having it.

Right they all have it, it's just a pointless argument to defend a healers in general. It's not really "mandatory" like being at the keyboard.

blew my post limit like an idiot but I need the last word so

and if i had some guy ranting about how its the healers fault we wiped for not covering for the DPS's failure, etc Id boot him from the raid - its just an incorrect point

Yeah if a DPS messes up and a DPS check isn't met, it's the healers fault for not bringing them up. You understand fault can be assigned to more than one party, right? It's like a tank not taunting and saying "hey you pulled aggro you tank it", it's completely against the point of cooperation it's looking out for yourself and trying to make a bigger deal out of someone else's mistakes, it's the smallest thing you can do in these games and I'm glad you have people to play with who tolerate it, congratulations.

[Shizato]

No one is talking about replacing you, but if you could have put out a res and stopped a wipe it's preferable than punishing the whole raid for one guy's mistake. If I had some guy start ranting out how it's not his job to battle res and the DPS should accept their mistakes and etc, etc, etc I'd boot him from the raid. It's just a hollow point.

and if i had some guy ranting about how its the healers fault we wiped for not covering for the DPS's failure, etc Id boot him from the raid - its just an incorrect point

[Zakalwe]

So you'd possibly cause a wipe because you're too good to raise someone?

Just go play a single player game already. This thread is just like the 'healers should dps' thread, so many baddies coming on here using some crazy mental gymnastics and elitism to justify being bad. Crazy.

I don't actually agree with Ti-Dus's blanket 'I refuse to swiftly raise ppl who refuse to learn how to dodge' declaration. However. One of my main alts is a WHM (the other's a Bard), and I was in an 8-man a few days ago (forget which one) and the Summoner just kept dying over and over, after needing more heals than my tank, and at some point I had to make a decision. Do I keep healing and raising him and go flat-line on MP and risk wiping the group or easily finish the fight one dps down?

(Went with the latter.)

EDIT: But back to Ti-Dus's original comment, the 'swift' part I can perhaps understand. It is such a powerful and cornerstone skill to WHM healing that I can understand the desire to save it for a more crucial use.

[wildgalax]

I think its covered already swiftcast is a nice spell to have, however by any means its not mandatory. If it is, well sorry but its my humble opinion that there's a problem, and some people are playing poorly, nothing elitist here, i feel the game isnt hard it just requires some practice. If you are making repeated mistakes and blaming healer o rother factors that is a pretty unsportmanship attitude and i would not want to play with someone like that. Like a kid failing in his exams blaming external factors, like teacher, and not taking sole responsibility. Whereas another student would do poorly, is willing to learn from mistakes and will go back home and reassess the areas he went wrong in the test and try improve on that. Sadly a lot of people will play the blame game and will probably never improve, which i suspect why many are crying about here, and are like cancer and spread to forums, everywhere cause they are really bitter, maybe even dont have statics and must rely on pugs that are are 'ruining the game' for them.

Usually i would restrain however players should not be bullied like this from toxic players. A guy just got his game for christmas is enjoying doing dungeons only to get told he is playing wrong, and now must level a class/role he has no desire to play, he may die repeatedly trying to level and just give up, just because some players didn't pull their weight in the dungeon.

At the end I have no quarrel with attitude like "i suggest you get that spell" that is reasonable you at least sharing advise, and not trying to bully/force them into getting it, at least he can reply "thanks but ill stick to what i have atm". The run can remain to be fun and mature.

[Zakalwe]

I think its covered already swiftcast is a nice spell to have, however by any means its not mandatory. If it is, well sorry but its my humble opinion that there's a problem, and some people are playing poorly, nothing elitist here, i feel the game isnt hard it just requires some practice. If you are making repeated mistakes and blaming healer o rother factors that is a pretty unsportmanship attitude and i would not want to play with someone like that. Like a kid failing in his exams blaming external factors, like teacher, and not taking sole responsibility. Whereas another student would do poorly, is willing to learn from mistakes and will go back home and reassess the areas he went wrong in the test and try improve on that. Sadly a lot of people will play the blame game and will probably never improve, which i suspect why many are crying about here, and are like cancer and spread to forums, everywhere cause they are really bitter, maybe even dont have statics and must rely on pugs that are are 'ruining the game' for them.

Usually i would restrain however players should not be bullied like this from toxic players. A guy just got his game for christmas is enjoying doing dungeons only to get told he is playing wrong, and now must level a class/role he has no desire to play, he may die repeatedly trying to level and just give up, just because some players didn't pull their weight in the dungeon.

At the end I have no quarrel with attitude like "i suggest you get that spell" that is reasonable you at least sharing advise, and not trying to bully/force them into getting it, at least he can reply "thanks but ill stick to what i have atm". The run can remain to be fun and mature.

Right, and I suggest you also get your relic weapon after defeating Titan HM.

[blowfin]

It's funny when mages leave DPS on the ground and the fight is failed due to a DPS check. Ultima is a good example from the other day where I got mashed by someone dragging eruptions around randomly. The healer(s) left me on the ground for a minute or more (no swiftcast quite obviously) and we failed to kill him in time.

It's a really good example of where swiftcast would have proved the difference, and gotten us the win.

the game isnt hard

That's exactly why you should have swiftcast, it's not hard to get.