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  1. #11
    Player
    viion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Uldah
    Posts
    4,206
    Character
    Sky Box
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Havenchild View Post
    I usually make it a point to tell my groups to kill the adds first, people don't exactly listen though. Can't really do anything about that.
    Upping the ilv requirement wont fix that unfortunately. CT is proof lol
    (1)

  2. #12
    Player
    Muzy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    446
    Character
    Nira Muzyka
    World
    Diabolos
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by viion View Post
    Upping the ilv requirement wont fix that unfortunately. CT is proof lol
    Ain't that the truth, it really doesn't matter what you put the requirements at, incompetent players are everywhere.
    (3)

  3. #13
    Player
    Shori's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    696
    Character
    Ryan Shori
    World
    Sagittarius
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Havenchild View Post
    we currently have fresh 50's trying to farm this dungeon for gear in duty finder.
    I believe this to be the main point of the dungeon? To aquire the next ilvl of gear?
    Tired of 'the best' players wanting an easy ride... no the best players are the strategic and helpful ones.
    (4)
    .

  4. #14
    Player
    Zakalwe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    431
    Character
    Lapsed Pacifist
    World
    Adamantoise
    Main Class
    Botanist Lv 51
    People talk about fresh 50s without AF gear. How is this possible? The lvl45 and lvl50 class quests get you that gear for free.
    (2)
    --------------------------------------------------

    The generation of random numbers is too important to be left to chance.

  5. #15
    Player
    Jubez187's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    309
    Character
    Arant Aleite
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 60
    I'm not a casual gamer by any means, but when I did Copperbell hard fresh outta the main scenario I can say that I felt pretty undergeared for it. I was down to wipe 100 times, but then I realized it just wasn't going to happen. Oh well, gives me something to strive for nonetheless. But I do agree those ilvl requirements are pretty low.
    (0)

  6. #16
    Player
    Worm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    491
    Character
    Gulvak Garamonde
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 60
    Yeah I think the real issue here is 'the best' players coming into dungeons and facerolling it. They don't understand tactics or the finer points of fights so they see a wipe and rather than it being some lack of execution on certain mechanics it has to be gear, since the fight went fine when they ran it with a bunch of people in ilvl 90. I've done all these fights on my current character (Haukke HM, Copperbell HM, and Sirius).

    Generally the DPS opposite me did have a relic but it's not like I was 100DPS behind them or something. Generally either someone knew the fights pretty well or we did something wrong (like making me try to DPS the boss and do rocks at the final boss of Copperbell) and corrected it. My only issue was people who didn't say anything or immediately ran back into the boss after a wipe that we had no time to address or talk through.
    (1)

  7. #17
    Player
    Amyas's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    775
    Character
    Amyas Leigh
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Armorer Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Havenchild View Post
    Of course people are going to say something like "I ran with two fresh 50s and I had no problems at all", because its completely practical that it happened.
    Of course people are going to whine about something like "I ran with two fresh 50s and I had so many problems because gear", because its completely practical that it happens like that every time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Havenchild View Post
    "I'd implore anyone to tell me the secret to this."
    Stop being a baddy. Its incredibly easy when people know what to do, regardless of gear. Hell I ran it with a 4k hp tank last night and had 0 problems whatsoever other than me being stupid on the Roc as a dd and accidently killing an extra egg with an autoattack while tabbing through.
    (2)
    Last edited by Amyas; 12-30-2013 at 04:11 AM.

  8. #18
    Player
    Havenchild's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    990
    Character
    Avalen Koma
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Amyas View Post
    Stop being a baddy.
    Stop being a baddie? What does me playing WHM in a run and keeping everyone alive as best as humanly possible ( mind you me being the last one alive, since I know everything about the dungeon for the most part) have to do with upping the ilvl in a dungeon that's a clear uphill struggle for people undergeared without a shred of DL on them or AF gear on them? You do realize that as a battle drags on damn near forever, MP doesn't magically appear out of thin air. You do run out of MP.

    Sitting comfortably at 4.6k MP, and knowing quite well how to solo heal things like Titan HM which require being quite careful with MP usage, whats being a baddie have to do with anything?

    Don't try to hurl irrelevant insults that don't even apply to this.

    Of course I have already done runs with undergeared people mainly in whites, and HAVE finished the run. It OBVIOUSLY is possible. That's not the point here. The uphill battle is still quite present.

    The difference between someone with just whites/ maybe a few level 55 gear, and someone with say a relic and some DL gear is clearly noticeable when watching DPS. Not because it makes the fights super easy because even in the latter, its still a struggle here and there sometimes, but because things do not drop fast enough before something like a healers MP runs out. I'm not sure how much Cure I's I'd have to use just to get that free MP for Cure 2 just to save MP, or not using a Medica I until more then 3 people were under say 75% HP. There's only so much you can do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zakalwe View Post
    People talk about fresh 50s without AF gear. How is this possible? The lvl45 and lvl50 class quests get you that gear for free.
    I was unsure about this myself for awhile but a lot of it is basically fate rushed people who don't bother with job quests before getting DL gear. Not every class has skills worth getting. So I'd imagine they gear directly for DL gear instead since the AF would be replaced anyway.
    (0)
    Last edited by Havenchild; 12-30-2013 at 04:46 AM.

  9. #19
    Player
    Amyas's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    775
    Character
    Amyas Leigh
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Armorer Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Havenchild View Post
    have to do with upping the ilvl in a dungeon that's a clear uphill struggle for people undergeared
    They aren't 'undergeared', its impossible to be 'undergeared' when you meet the ilvl prereq. You're just overgeared and a baddy for expecting everyone else to overgear for an easy instance that drops ilvl60 gear (that's also only been out a couple weeks...) so you can get your tomes faster.
    That's it.
    (0)
    Last edited by Amyas; 12-30-2013 at 04:52 AM.

  10. #20
    Player
    Havenchild's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    990
    Character
    Avalen Koma
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 100
    See this is what I'd like people to think about. If all were gonna argue about is that it's doable with no problem regardless of gear, then what the heck was the point of having an ilvl requirement for duty finder in the first place? All the dungeons pre 2.1 were doable with average gear to DL or beyond, yes EVEN COIL T1-T2, or at the very least DL gear for T4. If all were gonna say to upping the ilvl req for a dungeon that clearly is unfavorable to more undergeared people, is too bad, it can be done anyway, then I ask next what was even the point of having ilvl requirements to begin with?

    Wasn't this supposed to help prevent the fact that people were holding back others in more established raids are primal fights, because DF was unbiased on who it chose?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amyas View Post
    They aren't 'undergeared', its impossible to be 'undergeared' when you meet the ilvl prereq. You're just overgeared and a baddy for expecting everyone else to overgear for an easy instance that drops ilvl60 gear (that's also only been out a couple weeks...) so you can get your tomes faster.
    That's it.
    You can buy fresh whites from every vender at level 50 and still MEET the ilvl requirement of 48 for pharos sirius. That means nothing if thats the "req met". The same way that you could buy the same level 50 whites pre 2.1 but people complained about being held back in primal fights and other dungeons, which was indeed true for DPS racing mechanics like Titans Heart or Ifrits nails, Tonberry Boss, Demon Wall, AK Boss etcetc.

    Even if we go down to the last few seconds of the raid and clear it, I will stay for the full raid, that is of no importance to me to claim to be more overgeared vs undergeared. Im not looking for a speed run.
    (0)
    Last edited by Havenchild; 12-30-2013 at 05:04 AM.

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