Lustrate needs to be affected by healing debuffs

[Sanguisio]

IMO if you want to remove lustrate thats cool.

But give SCHs, regen and bene and CC; our niches for yours.

[Marcusow86]

Lustrate breaks healing debuffs -- they become trivial when there is a scholar around.

So lustrate breaks healing debuff, benedict doesn't...hmmmm.....sounds a little contradicting but let's move on the your next statement.

The answer to Siren's healing debuff should be to interrupt it every time. Not to turn around and just blow a lustrate on whoever the target is.

The answer to tank being at 10% hp should be to be better in healing . No to rely on lustrate/benedict to save tank's life. Same theory? Get what i mean? The answer is not really an answer if you put it this way.

The answer to a tank standing in white breath should be hallowed ground, or benediction. Not having a scholar just blow a few extra stacks on lustrate.

It sounds to me like the answer to countering a boss' mechanism lies with WHM's heal instead of SCH's.

So let me ask you this, why a boss mechanism's answer must be benedict instead of lustrate? to me they heal a certain % of hp ignoring healing debuff. They can be classified as the same type of healing. So why favor one over the other?

[LiadansWhisper]

So let me ask you this, why a boss mechanism's answer must be benedict instead of lustrate? to me they heal a certain % of hp ignoring healing debuff. They can be classified as the same type of healing. So why favor one over the other?

Jealousy. I truly think that many players don't understand the differences between the two Jobs, and have a serious case of, "the grass is greener on the other side" syndrome.

[Eriane]

The healing debuff is irrelevent. You can dispel it. If you nerf Lustrate, you nerf Scholars' only source of burst healing. As a WHM, we have Medica, Medica II, and Cure III, as well as very powerful Cure II. Scholars have Lustrate. That's it. The rest of their healing is tied to their pet (which does HoTs, not burst) or is tied to absorbs (which are great, but do not fill bars back up).

....

Physick = cure 1, Physick + Embrace = cure 2. No shields or mitigation.
Adlo that effectively heals for as much as cure 2 + Embrace > Cure 2. If Aldo crits the shield is doubled.>>>>>> Cure 2
Then there is lustrate that can be used 3 times a minute off the GCD.

If you actually need BURST, aldo (cure 2 potency) plus fairy embrace, (usually twice the healing of regen) and lustrate that's off gcd... how is there a comparison? That all just happened while you casted cure 2.

Once again, I'm not saying lustrate needs to be nerfed at all, but I couldn't just leave that alone.

I realize they are talking about siren and not twin, but in siren its less about healing in general, more about stacking when needed to avoid mass charm and debuffing. You don't even need burst for that fight at all.

If you need the kind of burst raid healing cure 3 provides, chances are something went wrong or its a raid mechanic. As in 8 players.

I'm also confused as to how raid healing contributes to your idea of burst in the first place. Lustrate is st burst healing, why even bring up whm aoe heals?

Regardless, Twintania's debuff that can't be dispelled actually shows whm weakness. The only way for a whm to deal with it is to precast a heal that lands right after the hit so it isn't affected by the debuff which a sch can do aswell, and stoneskin. You are really relying on the sch to preshield, mitigate as much damage as possible, and lustrate. Honestly I'm not even sure if the precasting is working as intended as a way to get around the debuff.

[sharazisspecial]

So lustrate breaks healing debuff, benedict doesn't

Because you can lustrate every death sentence but only Benedict one or maybe 2 of them the entire fight. Why are you making such a dumb comparison? Besides most whm wouldn't even care if Benedict was affected by healing debuffs.

Benedict is 5min cd and lustrate is 3 charges every minute. Which can be up to 6 if stacked.

People are saying lustrate is trivializing healing debuffs. It is pretty much undeniable fact that it does. Now the question is does SE think this is working as intended or not?

Even if lustrate and benedict was changed to be affect by healing debuff so what? Adloquium, physick,embrace and 12.5% hp is still enough to ensure tank won't die after death sentence. Maybe if you time the lustrate properly it would heal for the full amount.

Does the tank die every time the sch gets stunned and whm has to solo heal? Not if they time their heals...

Honestly I'm not even sure if the precasting is working as intended as a way to get around the debuff.

Well if SE make the healing debuff apply before the damage (which it should do) whm would get screwed lol(perhaps some would even be replaced for twintania) but most of us welcome challenge and interesting healing mechanics that can't just be bypassed!

[OPneedNerfs]

Remove Lustrate, remove benediction. True healers heal without either of those. If you failed to deal with mechanics, just wipe.

^ This is how stupid this thread sounds right about now.

[Thorauku]

Remove Lustrate, remove benediction. True healers heal without either of those. If you failed to deal with mechanics, just wipe.

^ This is how stupid this thread sounds right about now.

How can you say that when you never experienced Healing @ Lv 50 at all? Seems legit.

[LiadansWhisper]

Besides most whm wouldn't even care if Benedict was affected by healing debuffs.

I'd care. :-P If there were fewer Mortal Strike debuffs in this game, I might not care, but it seems the default "how do we tax healers" strat is to debuff the tank with something that negates our heals.

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....

Physick = cure 1, Physick + Embrace = cure 2. No shields or mitigation.
Adlo that effectively heals for as much as cure 2 + Embrace > Cure 2. If Aldo crits the shield is doubled.>>>>>> Cure 2
Then there is lustrate that can be used 3 times a minute off the GCD.

With the exception of Physick + Embrace, all of that costs quite a bit more than Cure II costs me. And I only get the same level of healing with Physick + Embrace if I Rouse Eos/Selene, and that can only be done once every 2 mins. Now, it sure could be my gear, but it's not THAT far behind my WHM gear.

If you actually need BURST, aldo (cure 2 potency) plus fairy embrace, (usually twice the healing of regen) and lustrate that's off gcd... how is there a comparison? That all just happened while you casted cure 2.

Comparing Regen and Embrace is like comparing apples and oranges. First, Regen isn't burst and you'd never use it in a burst situation, so why even bring it into this? And Adlo costs quite a bit more than Cure II (which is what you'd use for your single-target Burst).

None of this helps with AoE, btw.

I realize they are talking about siren and not twin, but in siren its less about healing in general, more about stacking when needed to avoid mass charm and debuffing. You don't even need burst for that fight at all.

You sure do when someone took an unexpected hit, got Charmed and has the debuff on them.

If you need the kind of burst raid healing cure 3 provides, chances are something went wrong or its a raid mechanic. As in 8 players.

Or your BLM explained what "Cleave" ment, then proceeded to stand in it as you yelled in Party, "GET OUT OF THE CLEAVE, GET OUT OF THE CLEAVE."

I'm also confused as to how raid healing contributes to your idea of burst in the first place. Lustrate is st burst healing, why even bring up whm aoe heals?

Because there's AoE damage going out in the Siren fight (i.e. multiple people are taking damage at the same time). While I can just Medica/Cure III my way out of it as a WHM, as a Scholar I have to single target people back up to ful because my AoE healing does crap all in that situation.

Regardless, Twintania's debuff that can't be dispelled actually shows whm weakness. The only way for a whm to deal with it is to precast a heal that lands right after the hit so it isn't affected by the debuff which a sch can do aswell, and stoneskin. You are really relying on the sch to preshield, mitigate as much damage as possible, and lustrate. Honestly I'm not even sure if the precasting is working as intended as a way to get around the debuff.

You are free to disagree with this, but...the thing is, every class doesn't have to be equal on every fight. Every class needs to be viable, but viable and equal are not the same thing. As long as you can get through the fight with either class (and you can, although it's going to be dicier without Lustrate), the fight is fine - and so are the classes.

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I prefer most things to make healing harder because its a bit easy atm. I'd prefer more responsibility on my shoulder rather it being on the dps. To me overcoming your team's weaknesses with damned good healing is one of the highlights of being a mmo healer.
More healer mechanics means less "dodge or get oneshot" fight mechanics.
Like titan ex. Due to lack of variety in healing or general encounter mechanics. SE just make lots of one shot mechanics and dps checks. As a healer i can't do shit if my dps falls of the cliff. But at least if it was a healer mechanic i could actually do something about it .

I'm all for DPS having responsibility on their shoulders. However, I do agree that it's really boring when there's nothing to heal (and on some fights, it seems like there's a lot of standing around and dodging, such that if your DPS makes a mistake and stands in something, there's nothing to do - so just keep sitting on your hands and/or DPSing the boss, because your heals are uneeded).

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So my sch does 1035 + 665 embrace (w/ facebook and full i90)
my whm is doing 1670 cure 2 (w/ thyrus zenith and full i90)
Both full ilvl90

How is it that your Cure II is doing the same healing (actually less) than my Cure II and I'm not in full i90?

Please do not ever try to ever say sch struggles with mana compared whm ever.

You realize this isn't a damn competition, right? Cost of spells is a factor, even for SCH. There are times when you are putting out so much healing as a Scholar that mana actually is a concern, especially with unexpected spike damage when Aetherflow is already on CD. But again, this isn't a competition. To even suggest that it is is downright asinine.

[sharazisspecial]

Why even deal with the mechanic when you can just bypass it with lustrate? Or spam benedict everytime a heal debuff appears like these knowledgeable schs are telling us too.

I'd care. :-P If there were fewer Mortal Strike debuffs in this game, I might not care, but it seems the default "how do we tax healers" strat is to debuff the tank with something that negates our heals.

I prefer to make healing harder because its a bit easy atm. I'd prefer more responsibility on my shoulder rather it being on the dps. To me overcoming your team's weaknesses with damned good healing is one of the highlights of being a mmo healer.
More healer mechanics means less "dodge or get oneshot" fight mechanics.
Such as titan ex. Due to lack of variety in healing or general encounter mechanics. SE just make lots of one shot mechanics and dps checks. As a healer i can't do shit if my dps falls of the cliff. But at least if it was a healer mechanic i could actually do something about it .

And I only get the same level of healing with Physick + Embrace if I Rouse Eos/Selene, and that can only be done once every 2 mins. Now, it sure could be my gear, but it's not THAT far behind my WHM gear.

So my sch does 1025 + 665 embrace (w/ facebook and full i90)
my whm is doing 1685 cure 2 (w/ thyrus zenith and full i90)

With the exception of Physick + Embrace, all of that costs quite a bit more than Cure II costs me.

Please do not try to say that sch struggles with mana compared to whm ever. Sch receive more then double the mana back in a fight then whm does. While having access to alot of "free" healing. Whm will be constantly using mana and due to their worse mana return , get lower and lower mana wise... But sch will be near full entire fight or just burst their mana pool back up .

How is it that your Cure II is doing the same healing (actually less) than my Cure II and I'm not in full i90?

Using a speed build on my whm. Leftover det/ss for sch.

[Marionette]

Why even deal with the mechanic when you can just bypass it with lustrate? Or spam benedict everytime a heal debuff appears like these knowledgeable schs are telling us too.

Well Scholars have had to get used to having to Virus big damaging skills, throwing out AoE reduction for others, pre-casting aldoquim for shield to negate more damage that they lack the healing power to recover straight up. timing E4E to give the best chance of the proc going off. Complain about Lustrate all you want, but if were using Lustrate were not using Sacred soil for damage reduction, were not using bane to compliment aoe damage, were not using skill drain to keep our MP topped up. There is more to it than just "lol 3x 25% healing every minute"

Time on White mage just tells me "Power through no other thought necessary besides if my MP will run out" Which is often counteracted by the Bard anyway.