FFXIV the worst economy in any P2P MMO?

[Archona]

People aren't exchanging Gil because Crafters are demanding far too much.

Case in point, NQ lvl15 THM pants, 75gil. This guy gets a sale.
The same pants but HQ, 2750.
Who in their right mind, as a level 15 player, would pay such an extreme amount for a +1 INT difference?

Make sales ofr reasonable prices, and people will buy. Made 130k in an hour selling off Materia I'll never use.

Why would a Lv15 THM WANT to buy a HQ pants that will last him all of 2-3 hours? No reason to spend gil on alt gear. There is no way a crafter should expect low level items to sell, period.

[Leowilde]

All i see here is a lot of people complaining that they cant make tons of Gil by selling their crafted stuff at super inflated prices.

Then there's lvl 40+ GSM crafted gear that sell for 30 gil - and I didn't take the numbers out of thin air either. It doesn't get much further from 'super inflated prices' than that.

[Sylve]

Why would a Lv15 THM WANT to buy a HQ pants that will last him all of 2-3 hours? No reason to spend gil on alt gear. There is no way a crafter should expect low level items to sell, period.

Because those HQ pants + Melds are easily as good if not better than gear found in Sastasha - Copperbell, with the possible exception of Acolyte. Actually, looking at the stats on Acolytes now, No, the HQ +Meld is as good Acolytes.

Which is kind of my whole point. Make sales with reasonable asking prices, and people will buy it.
HQ+Melded gear is the equal of Dungeon gear right up till 50. And even then, Vanya gear is easily superior to Darklight due to those Melds, and outright better than any loot from non raid dungeons. People just wont want to buy Vanya when when crafters ask for more than you can possibly afford.

Then there's lvl 40+ GSM crafted gear that sell for 30 gil - and I didn't take the numbers out of thin air either. It doesn't get much further from 'super inflated prices' than that.

I can reasonably call BS on this statement, at least on my server, as I'm looking through the MB right now, and I'm seeing rings selling for 5k, 1.7k, 4.2k and every number between. In fact, the only items that begin to fall under the 1k Gil mark are NQ level 27 crafter rings.
Earrings are just as bad, starting at 1k and going up for just NQ stuff. With the level 29 stuff being the first to go under 1k. And even, people still have those things up for more than that.
Hell, people are asking for 1711 Gil for NQ Brass Ear Cuffs. I can make them for as little 10 gil out of my own pocket.

[Archona]

Because those HQ pants + Melds are easily as good if not better than gear found in Sastasha - Copperbell, with the possible exception of Acolyte. Actually, looking at the stats on Acolytes now, No, the HQ +Meld is as good Acolytes.

Which is kind of my whole point. Make sales with reasonable asking prices, and people will buy it.
HQ+Melded gear is the equal of Dungeon gear right up till 50. And even then, Vanya gear is easily superior to Darklight due to those Melds, and outright better than any loot from non raid dungeons. People just wont want to buy Vanya when when crafters ask for more than you can possibly afford.

For the purposes of finishing content, there is no reason to spend gil on crafted gear, especially on HQ leveling stuff. You can finish the content just as easily with NQ vendor gear or quest gear. As far as Vanya vs Darklight goes, Darklight fulfills same purpose and is good enough for CT/Coil. Twintania is the only possible exception. You used to have to craft chestpiece if you got Allagan helm, but now you can just get CT chestpiece instead and not break your bank with crafted gear + materia for a few measly substat points that won't make a difference.

[Leowilde]

I can reasonably call BS on this statement, at least on my server, as I'm looking through the MB right now, and I'm seeing rings selling for 5k, 1.7k, 4.2k and every number between. In fact, the only items that begin to fall under the 1k Gil mark are NQ level 27 crafter rings.
Earrings are just as bad, starting at 1k and going up for just NQ stuff. With the level 29 stuff being the first to go under 1k. And even, people still have those things up for more than that.
Hell, people are asking for 1711 Gil for NQ Brass Ear Cuffs. I can make them for as little 10 gil out of my own pocket.

On your server, perhaps. I'm on moogle. But it's not all the gear, and rings seem to be on the winning part. But much of the head gear, circlets in particular, have been sold for extremely low prices. Ok, 30 gil MIGHT be a memory error on my pary, but they've gone below 200 gil way too often. I've spent more on the shards needed on really bad days.

Edit: I checked, and when I did I found several circlets selling for less than 30 gil. It's shameful, that's what it is.

[zdub303]

Sylve, what you're describing is a very dramatic shift in the value of gil that has been happening over the last few months. I read a post on here where a guy said he wouldnt gather for anything less than 50k per hour or its just charity work that's not worth his time, but 50k is technically a fairly large sum of money in terms of new gil generations. Running 2 high level roulettes in an hour and you make what... maybe 20k at best? (pre repairs)

I think this all comes from our market being started based on this 300k we initially get from questing our first class to 50. You start with 300k for essentially doing nothing so most people spent it all really fast early on (and then probably quit like they were going to anyways (remember only about 35% of people who start playing kept their sub after the first month) so income was massive early on. Now though, esp with gil being removed from the economy through stuff like housing, the value of gil is skyrocketing, yet its perceived value is not.

The biggest issue with our economy (IMO at least) is the complete lack of consumables. The market shouldn't compete against dungeon drops (like it is currently) but instead it should complement it. I personally think materia is the biggest way we could kick the economy back in full swing. By adding materia slots to blue dungeon gear and also making consumables that require materia, we could really increase the level of trade between crafters and non-crafters by placing a much higher value on spiritbonding.

[Sylve]

For the purposes of finishing content, there is no reason to spend gil on crafted gear, especially on HQ leveling stuff. You can finish the content just as easily with NQ vendor gear or quest gear. As far as Vanya vs Darklight goes, Darklight fulfills same purpose and is good enough for CT/Coil. Twintania is the only possible exception. You used to have to craft chestpiece if you got Allagan helm, but now you can just get CT chestpiece instead and not break your bank with crafted gear + materia for a few measly substat points that won't make a difference.

Crafted gear remains an option for those who don't want to farm dungeons for Darklight.
Vanya and Darklight are both good enough for Coil. You can either or a mix of both. Choice. Get crafted gear or get Tome gear.

The only way to force people to spend Gil on the Market Boards is have Crafters make stuff that is better than gear obtained elsewhere.
If you, today, gave all crafters recipes for ilvl 65, 75 and 85 gear, Ak/WP/HMs/PS, Darklight, Vanya and CTower gear gear is all obsolete. The only way to obtain the best precoil gear becomes the market boards. Combat Classes are then beholden to Crafters in order to progress. Give them i90 Craftables, and suddenly Coil itself is obsolete in terms of drops.
Combat Classes then level the Crafting Classes and make their own gear. And BOOM, Crafters have nothing to sell because their target market is making it all themselves.

Make your prices fair, and people will buy it. I want Vanya Robes for my SCH. Looking now, i see Robes up for 162k. Given the prices for the mats, Thats almost a fair price, and i'm willing to spend the money to buy it.

[zdub303]

Make your prices fair, and people will buy it. I want Vanya Robes for my SCH. Looking now, i see Robes up for 162k. Given the prices for the mats, Thats almost a fair price, and i'm willing to spend the money to buy it.

I don't how it is on Hyperion but ATP mats on Coeurl have dropped to 5-6k each. Meaning any crafted piece requires ~50k gil. If you pay 162k for a robe that cost that guy 50k (maybe 60k after some mostly worthless thread) then you are being robbed imo. I wouldn't pay a gil over 100k for anything on my market board, and I've been happily crashing markets for the all week with the easily accessible ATPs you get from Main Scenario Roulette and CT.

[Sylve]

Sylve, what you're describing is a very dramatic shift in the value of gil that has been happening over the last few months. I read a post on here where a guy said he wouldnt gather for anything less than 50k per hour or its just charity work that's not worth his time, but 50k is technically a fairly large sum of money in terms of new gil generations. Running 2 high level roulettes in an hour and you make what... maybe 20k at best? (pre repairs)
I think this all comes from our market being started based on this 300k we initially get from questing our first class to 50. You start with 300k for essentially doing nothing so most people spent it all really fast early on (and then probably quit like they were going to anyways (remember only about 35% of people who start playing kept their sub after the first month) so income was massive early on. Now though, esp with gil being removed from the economy through stuff like housing, the value of gil is skyrocketing, yet its perceived value is not.

The biggest issue with our economy (IMO at least) is the complete lack of consumables. The market shouldn't compete against dungeon drops (like it is currently) but instead it should complement it. I personally think materia is the biggest way we could kick the economy back in full swing. By adding materia slots to blue dungeon gear and also making consumables that require materia, we could really increase the level of trade between crafters and non-crafters by placing a much higher value on spiritbonding.

Speaking of Consumables, I'd buy Food for my Raid runs if i wasn't paying 5 figure sums for tiny stacks. Crafted gear needs to be a sidegrade option, moreso than it is right now. Problem is, You can only make sidegrade type gear up till ilvl 70. You cant have crafted 80 or 90 gear because that invalidates the Coil/CT loot. And we should never be able to get the best gear with crafting.

I do agree that Materia needs to play a bigger role on our gear than it does currently.
Once Housing prices drop down to affordable prices, through both the current degradation of prices over time, and SE tweaking prices as we go, The market for Furniture and general housing items should go up. We'll see a general shift to housing being the main focus for Crafting rather than Combat Gear.

[Sylve]

I don't how it is on Hyperion but ATP mats on Coeurl have dropped to 5-6k each. Meaning any crafted piece requires ~50k gil. If you pay 162k for a robe that cost that guy 50k (maybe 60k after some mostly worthless thread) then you are being robbed imo. I wouldn't pay a gil over 100k for anything on my market board, and I've been happily crashing markets for the all week with the easily accessible ATPs you get from Main Scenario Roulette and CT.

Hyperion is a Legacy server, so general prices are still pretty high. In time we'll get more newer players and the prices will shift down. Given that it was only a month ago that those Vanya robes were 500k - 1million (Still 1 million i see at the bottom of the list) coming down to 162 actually makes it affordable for most, even fresh players with their 300k.