Suggestion of Paladin "utility and fun" improvement

[AzumaKun]

IB is already balanced against PLDs with just Shield Oath and shield. Comparing *additional* benefits to PLD against a mechanic that is already required in order to be balanced with PLD is double dipping on balance comparisons.

Really? Proof of that would be great.

[Kitru]

Really? Proof of that would be great.

Gamemeko did an absolutely stellar job of it here.

[MomoOG]

Pld needs a combo that ends in cure. Needs to actually use whm magic.

[Zoomie]

While I can agree that PLD is a bit less fun than WAR and could stand to have a a few more "decisions" to be made it its play style I think the important thing to take into consideration how those changes would effect the class as a hole. I'm all for making PLD more fun to play as long as it doesn't imbalance the tanking classes again. Their are arguments for which is better where, etc, etc but at this point a buff to either class would make it the preferred tank given a choice of only one.

Make PLD more fun... sure. "Buff" PLD in anyway.... no.

As someone who has both at 50 and has killed everything short of Twin, EM titan/ifrit on both classes... they are pretty freaking equal right now and it should stay that way.

[Kenji1134]

So having access to a more instant Stoneskin is being met with a strangely high amount of resistance... even though Paladin can already Stoneskin themselves about 5.5 times on a single mana bar. But whatever.
The main point is that there is room to add a 3rd step to the Riot Blade combo, which would give us something more to do while tanking, without overly shifting the tanking balance. I still want to push the idea of having Shield Swipe become a weak frontal cone that debuffs INT. Again this becomes moot when you have a MNK in the group, and basically brings PLD's debuffing capability up to the level of Warrior's. (-10% all vs -10% STR and INT)

As far as a stacking mechanic, it would be nice, but not sorely needed. Even something as simple as "You get hit 10 times, the next Flash generates 2x enmity, costs 0 mp, and the blind lasts twice as long" would be a nice addition to strengthen our still weak AoE aggro... but not sorely needed.

[Asteldian]

I agree with the idea of a 3rd step on riot blade combo, for dps if nothing else rather than test main tanks with our full aggro combo.
I just got my war to 50, my pally is 47. I like my pally but I have found the war more fun to play, and easier for standard content.
I am not looking for anything to make the pally better, as he does the job well..though ae aggro is more effort, just needs a little something more

[pilot]

I think it would make sense if Paladins had more support options fueled by MP. More reasons to consume MP for support is what I think is missing, not necessarily a third step to that combo. Good reasons for using a combo that does not generate enmity would make playing Paladin more fun for me. A little more decision making, not so straight ahead.

Recent changes now obligate a Warrior especially in an off tank position to use their lowest potency combo for the sake of its utility. The Riot Blade combo feel very much like "the useless combo" which the Storm's Path combo once was.

[Jubez187]

I've tried this thread like 10 times, no one will agree...they're all fanboys. Somehow, someway, people started to believe that 15 mitigation skills is fun game design.

[Zoomie]

I think it would make sense if Paladins had more support options fueled by MP. More reasons to consume MP for support is what I think is missing, not necessarily a third step to that combo. Good reasons for using a combo that does not generate enmity would make playing Paladin more fun for me. A little more decision making, not so straight ahead.

Recent changes now obligate a Warrior especially in an off tank position to use their lowest potency combo for the sake of its utility. The Riot Blade combo feel very much like "the useless combo" which the Storm's Path combo once was.

Move RoH's Str debuff to Riot Blade. Now PLD's has an decision to make.

[Kitru]

So having access to a more instant Stoneskin is being met with a strangely high amount of resistance... even though Paladin can already Stoneskin themselves about 5.5 times on a single mana bar. But whatever.

Because a 3 second cast that can be interrupted and has strict limits upon how often it can be used based upon a reasonably limited mp pool is *totally* the same as extra free instant Stoneskins every 20 seconds. Yes, PLD can use Stoneskin now, but it's not the same as what you're trying to give them.

Even something as simple as "You get hit 10 times, the next Flash generates 2x enmity, costs 0 mp, and the blind lasts twice as long" would be a nice addition to strengthen our still weak AoE aggro... but not sorely needed.

You realize that "get hit 10 times to buff Flash" is basically the same as "your Flash pretty much has a new permanent benefit", right? 10 hits is nothing, especially in situations where you'd be using Flash. Even if there's an ICD on it (and I'm not entirely sure that there *are* any abilities in ARR with ICDs because of how they designed the procs), it's still only useful in a single situation.

As to PLD's "weak AoE aggro", it's more than strong enough to keep aggro off of AoE nuking DPS, so the only thing that it's weak compared to is WAR and, like I have to explain to absolutely everyone who brings this up, completely ignores so many other aspects of Flash that it's insane. Flash is, for all intents and purposes, already free because it is the only (appreciable) MP consuming ability that PLD gets and they have a combo that lets them regenerate said mana incredibly quickly: FB>RB>Flash is basically mp neutral (when you factor in natural mp regeneration, it's something like 5 mp lost/cycle, which is negligible). Overpower costs an arm and a leg. The only time that a WAR is going to have utterly insane AoE enmity generation is when they're spamming Overpower like crazy... wherein they're going to have to stop and sit there doing nothing for an extended period to let it build back up. A PLD spamming Flash and moving into Riot Blade will be back at full (for both TP *and* MP) in no time; a WAR spamming Overpower will take about 20 seconds of just standing there to get back to full, and, all the while, will have no Wrath stacks from anything (which means no IB). Overpower is incredibly strong, but it has huge opportunity *and* up front costs. Plus, Flash also brings the Blind secondary effect, which is a nice little side benefit.

A WAR using Overpower in a sustainable manner and a PLD using Flash in pretty much *any* manner are going to generate roughly the same enmity over time, so, no, PLDs do *not* have "weak AoE aggro"; they have comparatively weak (compared to a WAR) but still perfectly serviceable frontloaded AoE enmity generation.