Just Another 3rd party bot BUT 1000 TIMES WORSE

[Mortikhan]

I've been who with the what?
You give ideas way too much credit. They don't fall far from the tree. The tree is the ultimate problem when the fruit is horrible.

Enlighten us then. Tell us the plan for dealing with RMT and bots. Please keep in mind that you can't ban everyone who crafts over 30 minutes without a leve to do or happens to do any gathering on their own for more than 30 minutes. Please tell me the site where I can pick up the latest version of "Bot Detect and Smash"...oh wait that would be a 3rd party program wouldn't it? Is your superiority in finding and harassing bots a proven method that anyone can do or will I need bionic implants? I want to know your secret formula for this activity...I would also like to know who empowered you to do it. Please share.

This is my sarcastic way of pointing out that you still have not outlined or placed any guidelines or (most importantly) restrictions on the activities of bot hunters. The "we are bot hunters so all of our actions are justified" routine is a license to aggravate other players that you as a player are granting to others. You are encouraging behavior that you have no authority to condone which is going to get some person with the best intentions banned. At some point you are going to have to put down that sheriff badge and realize that it is not your call to make.

Let's get back on topic. I will ask you the questions point blank. How do think players should react if they suspect a person is botting or RMT? What actions do you think they should take against a suspected botter or RMT? If SE does not ban a person you suspect of botting or RMT, what do you think a player is entitled to do? What methods should be employed to confirm a player is botting or RMT in your opinion and are players capable of confirmation?

If our fruit here at FFXIV is rotten then show us the way to the promised land. Show us the unspoiled fruit of nirvana. Let's see what fruit falls from your tree.

[Vahzl]

Enlighten us then. Tell us the plan for dealing with RMT and bots. Please keep in mind that you can't ban everyone who crafts over 30 minutes without a leve to do or happens to do any gathering on their own for more than 30 minutes. Please tell me the site where I can pick up the latest version of "Bot Detect and Smash"...oh wait that would be a 3rd party program wouldn't it? Is your superiority in finding and harassing bots a proven method that anyone can do or will I need bionic implants? I want to know your secret formula for this activity...I would also like to know who empowered you to do it. Please share.

This is my sarcastic way of pointing out that you still have not outlined or placed any guidelines or (most importantly) restrictions on the activities of bot hunters. The "we are bot hunters so all of our actions are justified" routine is a license to aggravate other players that you as a player are granting to others. You are encouraging behavior that you have no authority to condone which is going to get some person with the best intentions banned. At some point you are going to have to put down that sheriff badge and realize that it is not your call to make.

Let's get back on topic. I will ask you the questions point blank. How do think players should react if they suspect a person is botting or RMT? What actions do you think they should take against a suspected botter or RMT? If SE does not ban a person you suspect of botting or RMT, what do you think a player is entitled to do? What methods should be employed to confirm a player is botting or RMT in your opinion and are players capable of confirmation?

If our fruit here at FFXIV is rotten then show us the way to the promised land. Show us the unspoiled fruit of nirvana. Let's see what fruit falls from your tree.

This is pretty much how I have to try to explain this too, on a daily basis. Yes you might be upset by it, and indeed you are all grunty no knickers about the situation, but what would you suggest to be done, that is fair, safe and 100% accurate, without affecting paying customers?

People think that these brain fart solutions they come up with can change the world, but the leading MMo developers have teams of hundreds of people working day and night to counter these issues, and have tried pretty much everything in their power to deter it, and it still happens. See it from inside for a few weeks and you will understand that:

1) It is not a big an issue as you whine on about it being, the only reason you see it more at the moment is because you are actively hunting them. People say they are EVERYWHERE!!!! when in fact there is a handful on each server.

2) There is alot more being done about it on a global scale than you can comprehend. Again, kill the roots, and the tree cannot grow back, destroy the fruit and more take it's place, and usually stronger than before.

3) Reporting it to the STF is all you can do. Going any further brings you into the realms of policy breaching. You are not paid to do this, you are not contracted to do this, and you are also not actually permitted to do this. You have no right further than showing concern and reporting, so get off your rocking horse, take your admiral hat off and put the wooden sword down, or, as mentioned by a handful of previous posters, you will get banned quicker than the bots do. Either way, makes me happy.

There really isn't much more to discuss on this issue now though. Admiral Peregrine and her armada of muppetry is setting sail for fail. Don't fall into their wild and wacky team of misfits, or you will most likely be looking at a closed account.

AND before you miss quote me:

- Report to the STF and then move on with your life -

(this was all directed at peregrine, not you mort, while we have a few disagreements, I respect your objective opinions, and agree with most of what you say)

[Eldaena]

How do think players should react if they suspect a person is botting or RMT?

Observe and Report. Reporting is for suspected botting, it is up to SE to determine if it is or not.

What actions do you think they should take against a suspected botter or RMT?

Monitor and profile. Botters and RMT are stealing from SE and from legitimate players. It should be prioritized highly. Right next to making the game enjoyable, seeing as even if the game was a blast, botting could spoil it.

If SE does not ban a person you suspect of botting or RMT, what do you think a player is entitled to do?

Continue to observe and report. All we can really do to help the situation. However, I think SE should take a bigger stand against the issue. It's extremely frustrating to the player-base that cares about the botting situation to continue to play the game only to see the same bots month and month again. Maybe bots aren't as bad on some servers as my own, but literally they line the streets of Bodhum.

What methods should be employed to confirm a player is botting or RMT in your opinion and are players capable of confirmation?

I definitely think SE needs to take a more active role with the severity of the situation and get the STF in there proactively. Allow us to send reports in game to STF. Get STF or GMs on scene of reports. Profile better the suspected players. Observe popular bots online and see how they act. I can't say I know all that goes on behind the scenes now about this situation, but in game, it is an obvious problem that does not seem to be addressed at all currently.


As much as people try to deny or defend, botting is an issue in this game. It does effect all legitimate players. It makes the game look in an even worse condition than it already is, and makes the game unappealing to new and old players alike. I know we can't have a perfectly fair environment for everyone, but it should be a goal. An actively sought after goal that encourages players that SE cares about a fun and fair environment for it's players.

Edit: On a side-note, is there any way for SE to press charges against this organizations making bots and advertising them for FFXIV?

[Vahzl]

How do think players should react if they suspect a person is botting or RMT?

Observe and Report. Reporting is for suspected botting, it is up to SE to determine if it is or not.

What actions do you think they should take against a suspected botter or RMT?

Monitor and profile. Botters and RMT are stealing from SE and from legitimate players. It should be prioritized highly. Right next to making the game enjoyable, seeing as even if the game was a blast, botting could spoil it.

If SE does not ban a person you suspect of botting or RMT, what do you think a player is entitled to do?

Continue to observe and report. All we can really do to help the situation. However, I think SE should take a bigger stand against the issue. It's extremely frustrating to the player-base that cares about the botting situation to continue to play the game only to see the same bots month and month again. Maybe bots aren't as bad on some servers as my own, but literally they line the streets of Bodhum.

What methods should be employed to confirm a player is botting or RMT in your opinion and are players capable of confirmation?

I definitely think SE needs to take a more active role with the severity of the situation and get the STF in there proactively. Get STF or GMs on scene of reports. Profile better the suspected players. Observe popular bots online and see how they act. I can't say I know all that goes on behind the scenes now about this situation, but in game, it is an obvious problem that does not seem to be addressed at all currently.


As much as people try to deny or defend, botting is an issue in his game. It does effect all legitimate players. It makes the game look in an even worse condition than it already is, and makes the game unappealing to new and old players alike. I know we can't have a perfectly fair environment for everyone, but it should be a goal. An actively sought after goal that encourages players that SE cares about a fun and fair environment for it's players.

This is the first thing you have said in your entire posting history in this thread that is actually agreeable, right, and well thought out. I agree with you 100%.

[Eldaena]

This is the first thing you have said in your entire posting history in this thread that is actually agreeable, right, and well thought out. I agree with you 100%.

I hope you realize I am someone that cares. I want a fair environment in this game and not just for myself. People do care, and I want it to be known.

[Vahzl]

I hope you realize I am someone that cares. I want a fair environment in this game and not just for myself. People do care, and I want it to be known.

I do realise that, and I think we may have entered into a bad situation from the start. Indeed people do care about the situation, what I was saying is that people don't care about Peregrines little campaign to wage war on anything he disagrees with.

When I say "I don't care" it just means I am reading the post, and yet hearing white noise in my head, while thinking of fields and apple trees. In other words, it is a non-against the policies way of saying stfu

[Eldaena]

I do realise that, and I think we may have entered into a bad situation from the start. Indeed people do care about the situation, what I was saying is that people don't care about Peregrines little campaign to wage war on anything he disagrees with.

When I say "I don't care" it just means I am reading the post, and yet hearing white noise in my head, while thinking of fields and apple trees. In other words, it is a non-against the policies way of saying stfu

I'm not sure how that's any better? Most that I put into that post that you agreed with is what I've been feeling and saying from the start. You said I was unintelligent, a witch hunter, unreasonably upset and made it very clear that you think people in general do not care.

What you are agreeing with is what you've been ridiculing me about on this thread for the last couple days.

[options]

Botters and RMTs are scum. Report them and move on.

Shouldn't it be the MMO makers plan to make the game, where these said scum, not affect the rest of the legitimate players fun?

Just don't think claiming NMs is the way to go.

[Mortikhan]

How do think players should react if they suspect a person is botting or RMT?

Observe and Report. Reporting is for suspected botting, it is up to SE to determine if it is or not.

What actions do you think they should take against a suspected botter or RMT?

Monitor and profile. Botters and RMT are stealing from SE and from legitimate players. It should be prioritized highly. Right next to making the game enjoyable, seeing as even if the game was a blast, botting could spoil it.

If SE does not ban a person you suspect of botting or RMT, what do you think a player is entitled to do?

Continue to observe and report. All we can really do to help the situation. However, I think SE should take a bigger stand against the issue. It's extremely frustrating to the player-base that cares about the botting situation to continue to play the game only to see the same bots month and month again. Maybe bots aren't as bad on some servers as my own, but literally they line the streets of Bodhum.

What methods should be employed to confirm a player is botting or RMT in your opinion and are players capable of confirmation?

I definitely think SE needs to take a more active role with the severity of the situation and get the STF in there proactively. Get STF or GMs on scene of reports. Profile better the suspected players. Observe popular bots online and see how they act. I can't say I know all that goes on behind the scenes now about this situation, but in game, it is an obvious problem that does not seem to be addressed at all currently.


As much as people try to deny or defend, botting is an issue in his game. It does effect all legitimate players. It makes the game look in an even worse condition than it already is, and makes the game unappealing to new and old players alike. I know we can't have a perfectly fair environment for everyone, but it should be a goal. An actively sought after goal that encourages players that SE cares about a fun and fair environment for it's players.

I agree with yours and Vahzls post. In response I would like to say that the RTF works things like a sting operation from what I have seen of them. We report the rabbit hole and they go into it to see how far it goes. They don't raise an alarm right away or else the roaches scatter. They wait to see how extensive the issue is and then they stamp out the problem as much as possible in one fell swoop. RMT are money making groups so hitting one RMT player tips SEs hand on how they found out about it. Also, hitting one at a time allows them to utilize other RTM players working with them to get back in action much faster.

People think that IP addy banning is still in play. That is only part of what SE can do. Do you remember that verification code that you had to use to install the game? That is not just used to stop pirating. They also use that to invalidate copies of this game that people own. If they hit a RMT group with those bans then they force them to repurchase the game itself. Although it is not much of a punishment for smaller RMT firms...it does affect larger ones in a much broader way and interrupts them on a larger scale. The best way to hurt anyone who is trying to make money on anything is to interrupt their business and force them to invest more in a project.

No plan will be completely sound in dealing with this problem. The main objective of SE is to make RMT and botting so profitless for those trying to exploit it that they will not make the investment to perform either in this game.

[Mortikhan]

I'm not sure how that's any better? Most that I put into that post that you agreed with is what I've been feeling and saying from the start. You said I was unintelligent, a witch hunter, unreasonably upset and made it very clear that you think people in general do not care.

What you are agreeing with is what you've been ridiculing me about on this thread for the last couple days.

I do realise that, and I think we may have entered into a bad situation from the start. Indeed people do care about the situation, what I was saying is that people don't care about Peregrines little campaign to wage war on anything he disagrees with.

When I say "I don't care" it just means I am reading the post, and yet hearing white noise in my head, while thinking of fields and apple trees. In other words, it is a non-against the policies way of saying stfu

This is the confusion I talked about earlier in this thread that is caused by people addressing each other on a personal level and not the topic. Both of you and numerous others (yes even Peregrine) have made solid points about what is, should or has been done to solve the problem. The first step in seeing if someone has anything of merit to say is to ignore what they say about you and focus on what they say about the topic. When you do this you will first see the merit in what they are saying before you start spitting venom at them. Either way the venom spitting part is not very productive but it is admittedly fun to blow off some steam .

People have different ways of expressing themselves. Some like the bitter exchange of words, some like a more subtle approach. As long as there is actually an exchange of information going on that has something to do with the main topic there is hope a resolution can be found. Look at it this way...it only took you 17 pages and 175 posts to figure out that you might be on the same side...I have seen a lot worse with far worse results.