Couples geting the shaft on duty roulette

[glen7187]

OK yeah i'm not gonna respond to everything because what IS it with people using bad metaphors in this thread, but like... i already conceded this point about all roulettes except high-level. Three times, including in this very post. It's the start of the next paragraph.

like i just don't know how i'm expected to work under these conditions

But you haven't proved your point. Plenty of us are doing all the categories of the Duty Roulette. So where are you getting this "Nobody is doing this seriously" stuff from. Don't stress yourself out when you are trying to prove a point with data that doesn't exist.

[Norondor]

But you haven't proved your point. Plenty of us are doing all the categories of the Duty Roulette. So where are you getting this "Nobody is doing this seriously" stuff from. Don't stress yourself out when you are trying to prove a point with data that doesn't exist.

Yeah, i really can't prove the point because i don't have data on DF times and if SE releases a bunch showing things have roundly gotten better i'll be eating humble pie -- but please think about this for like ten seconds. Players are matched to dungeon groups when a tank, a healer, and two dps who meet the item level requirement for the dungeon they have selected are found and connected to a common instance server, is this not right? I see you play bard: are you commonly hitting the queue button and finding a group instantly? Or do you have to wait for a tank or healer? What exactly about including a daily log-in bonus would cause there to be more people playing bottleneck roles?

If you're consistently getting faster queue times -- cool, i guess. But most likely that's at the expense of another player who used to commonly play with friends who were in bottleneck roles and now has to wait instead of you. In some dystopian AI-controlled future ruled by sheer utilitarianism, preventing people from playing with friends so that strangers queue faster seems like it's probably a good idea, except i pay for this game to play with people i know, like, and have history with.

You get 50 with the new dungeons, so that more than makes up for the 10 tome decrease in AK, your point is still moot, you're not very good at this are you.

jfc

40->50 = 25% increase over previous tome income per average dungeon

300->450 = 50% increase in weekly tome income required to reach cap

i get that you're going for snappiness, but you can't just say "you're not very good at this" and that's the slam jam, you probably want to be able to at least do basic arithmetic first

[glen7187]

Yeah, i really can't prove the point because i don't have data on DF times and if SE releases a bunch showing things have roundly gotten better i'll be eating humble pie -- but please think about this for like ten seconds. Players are matched to dungeon groups when a tank, a healer, and two dps who meet the item level requirement for the dungeon they have selected are found and connected to a common instance server, is this not right? I see you play bard: are you commonly hitting the queue button and finding a group instantly? Or do you have to wait for a tank or healer? What exactly about including a daily log-in bonus would cause there to be more people playing bottleneck roles?

Yes I understand what you are saying. But the queues are queues. First in, First out. Imagine there's 3 lines, 1 is for all DPS, 1 for tanks, 1 for healers. As a DPS, since like everyone plays DPS, the DPS line is super long. In order for the DPS line to move, we have to have a tank and a healer correct? Tanks instant queue because for the most part, the tank line is practically empty all the time. The Duty Roulette is giving an incentive for people to queue solo, and a higher bonus for in-demand roles like, the tank. This means, if more people go for the incentive, then more tanks enter the tank line. That means, the other 2 lines (healer and DPS) will move faster because more tanks are coming to the tank line. This, in effect, speeds up the queue.

I also understand that other roles are also going to take the incentive and pack up the healer and dps line even more. This can make the queue times the same or even longer which is definitely possible. So yes, your queue times possibly will stay the same in end-game content if you use the Duty Roulette. But what is this proving? That more than one person deserves to enter the Duty Roulette as a group? That isn't the intent of the DR. It is meant as incentive for solo players to queue in the DF. That's all it is. And you can continue to argue about difference in efficiency but at the most, all you are losing is a single bonus per day (if you only DR high-level content). This is not a penalty, you just don't receive a bonus. If you are arguing because you want to get things faster, that's more of a personal issue. Who are you racing against? And the option is available to you, just not in the way you want. You'll have to accept that fact and just enjoy the game in other ways.

If you're consistently getting faster queue times -- cool, i guess. But most likely that's at the expense of another player who used to commonly play with friends who were in bottleneck roles and now has to wait instead of you. In some dystopian AI-controlled future ruled by sheer utilitarianism, preventing people from playing with friends so that strangers queue faster seems like it's probably a good idea, except i pay for this game to play with people i know, like, and have history with.

Again you are making it seem like all of these things have been forced upon you when they haven't. Me getting faster queue times isn't at the EXPENSE of another person because that person has a CHOICE. If he/she wants to jump into the DR solo and make faster queue times for me, then great! If he/she wants to play with friends, he can do that too. He can't choose the DR but that's his choice. SE isn't PREVENTING you from playing with friends, they are giving you an INCENTIVE to play solo to help strangers. That's it! You want to help some solo people out? Cool, here's a bonus for your time. You don't want to help solo people? That's fine but this bonus is for the people helping the solo people so I can't give it to you.

That's all it is...

[Norondor]

I also understand that other roles are also going to take the incentive and pack up the healer and dps line even more. This can make the queue times the same or even longer which is definitely possible. So yes, your queue times possibly will stay the same in end-game content if you use the Duty Roulette. But what is this proving? That more than one person deserves to enter the Duty Roulette as a group? That isn't the intent of the DR.

Why not? No, seriously: Why not?

I play as a tank. I'm in demand. If i queue with any combination of other players, i'm speeding the duty finder queue. If i party with my friend, who plays summoner, and then enter DF, i'm finishing the queue times for a healer and a dps out there someplace. Except now i'm not receiving my daily bonus, because...? Because i know the summoner and he's not someone from another server i'll never see again?

Let's return to your idea of lines or hoppers for classes -- if i queue solo, i get to free one healer and two dps from their lines. If i queue with my smn friend the effect is exactly the same, because otherwise my friend would be another dps player stuck waiting for a tank. Another tank will find them, pick them up, and do a dungeon run for them, and maybe it will go well or maybe it won't -- My friend will be taking the place in the dps line of whoever got to go with me instead and that is the only difference.

What I'm trying to drive at is that the pool of players does not change either way -- what changes is, if i bring my friend, i'm getting a lesser reward for the same amount of work. Cool!

It is meant as incentive for solo players to queue in the DF. That's all it is. And you can continue to argue about difference in efficiency but at the most, all you are losing is a single bonus per day (if you only DR high-level content). This is not a penalty, you just don't receive a bonus. If you are arguing because you want to get things faster, that's more of a personal issue. Who are you racing against?

The weekly cap on myth tome acquisition -- raised 50% in 2.1 -- and the limited hours i have to play with friends who have varying schedules. So, you know, time.

And the option is available to you, just not in the way you want. You'll have to accept that fact and just enjoy the game in other ways.

Yeah, i'd really like to enjoy the game in other ways -- making a living as a crafter, or spending time setting up and decorating a nice house for my friends and FC members to come live in, or simply logging in to play as i feel like it, and not feeling pressured by hours of daily quests and weekly chores to get done.

Enjoyment is getting thin on the ground these days or else i wouldn't feel so badly like i want to voice my complaints about the game.

[glen7187]

Why not? No, seriously: Why not?
Let's return to your idea of lines or hoppers for classes -- if i queue solo, i get to free one healer and two dps from their lines. If i queue with my smn friend the effect is exactly the same, because otherwise my friend would be another dps player stuck waiting for a tank. Another tank will find them, pick them up, and do a dungeon run for them, and maybe it will go well or maybe it won't -- My friend will be taking the place in the dps line of whoever got to go with me instead and that is the only difference.

It's not quite the same because your smn friend now becomes the first person in the DPS line because they have to queue with you. That means you are now effectively making it WORSE for the others in line because you are bringing people to the front with you. Where as, if you just queue solo, the person in the front gets to go when it's their turn. Perhaps that's why the DR is only meant for solo so that the queues keep moving instead of people bringing a friend or two and cutting in front of the lines.

What I'm trying to drive at is that the pool of players does not change either way -- what changes is, if i bring my friend, i'm getting a lesser reward for the same amount of work. Cool!

I guess this is more of a half empty/half full type of idea. Because you aren't getting a lesser reward, you just don't get the bonus. A bonus you get once a day (per category). So you can not bring your friend ONCE, get your bonus, then bring your friend all you want (with no bonus). But no, you can't bring your friend AND get the bonus as that's not what the bonus is tailored for.

The weekly cap on myth tome acquisition -- raised 50% in 2.1 -- and the limited hours i have to play with friends who have varying schedules. So, you know, time.

Yes I know how the time thing goes as I go through it too. But with level syncing and such, I can always play with my friends when our schedules DO line up. Like this week I haven't been able to play all week cause of work, but I can't get mad at SE because I'm expecting some way for me to make up that time. That's a personal issue.

Yeah, i'd really like to enjoy the game in other ways -- making a living as a crafter, or spending time setting up and decorating a nice house for my friends and FC members to come live in, or simply logging in to play as i feel like it, and not feeling pressured by hours of daily quests and weekly chores to get done.

Enjoyment is getting thin on the ground these days or else i wouldn't feel so badly like i want to voice my complaints about the game.

Again, you are only feeling pressured because you bring it on yourself. I too want to be a lvl 50 crafter but will I get that any time soon? No I just don't have that kind of time. But I can't be upset at SE for that. I can't get mad at SE because I don't have the time to meet the weekly caps, or that I can't efficiently maximize my time to reach the weekly caps. No one said you HAVE to reach the weekly caps anyway, those are goals you set yourself. Don't be upset at the game because you weren't able to reach the goals you are setting for yourself. It's not the game's fault.

But hey go ahead and voice your complaints, I'm just disputing some of the points is all. Personally, I'm an old school gamer and I am very used to the days where there weren't any patches and when people didn't like something it was, oh well tough luck work around it. So my personal mind set is that if its not what you want, oh well, work around it and move on.

[Fumamyena]

I think the OP is missing part of the point. It is not a perpetual bonus, its a daily thing. As for your comment about not being a personal issue for those of us that don't agree with you is inaccurate. I choose to maximize my time in game both personally and with my wife. I still haven't seen a valid argument as to why you can't play separate for a few hours a week other than a desire not to. The same goes for things like PvP you don't have to participate if you don't want to. You just don't get the rewards if you choose that path.

[CyanDvai]

Personally, I'm an old school gamer and I am very used to the days where there weren't any patches and when people didn't like something it was, oh well tough luck work around it. So my personal mind set is that if its not what you want, oh well, work around it and move on.

I'm an "Old School" gamer as well, back in the days of UO.
People want "instant gratification" these days, they want everything in a game to be handed to them.

'oh, you showed up, here's a trophy for you'

This game is very casual friendly, I don't even worry about the caps, I haven't capped myth in over 3 weeks. The reason there's a token system and a cap on them is solely for the casual players (which sounds like you belong too Norondor).

[CyanDvai]

i get that you're going for snappiness, but you can't just say "you're not very good at this" and that's the slam jam, you probably want to be able to at least do basic arithmetic first

Not really a "slam jam" you keep repeating the same flawed reasoning for why you're upset even though everyone here is pointing out that you are not being prevented from doing what you want. All that was introduced was more options for people that play solo. All of your ranting is nothing but QQ

You have lost nothing. You can still group with DF you do not have to do DR.

You can do DR once per day for a total of 490 - 630 Myth (70 low, 90 high) total doing anything from WP to Haukke Manor. Depending on the quality of your group it can take you any where from 15 to 90 minutes to complete it (total time spent between 1 hour 45 minutes to 7 hours 30 minutes) or you can do what you did prior to the patch.

Premake your group or most of your group. They made AK easier (reason for the decrease in tomes) and WP is still any where from 10 - 15 minute run (maybe 20 if you go slow). If you spam WP and AK (which both can be done in 15 or less) you will have to run it 15 times which runs you about 3 hours and 45 minutes. I've heard people clearing Haukke Manor in 15 to 20 minutes, and that gives you 50 tomes so you only have to run it 9 times with your investment being 2 hours and 15 minutes to 3 hours.

So, the "best scenario" time for DR may be lower, but given the fact that you're rolling in random it's a slim chance you'll get that every time. You will have to be very unlucky to get horrible parties every time, so even if you average it out your time invested in DR for cap may be around 4 - 5 hours or so which is still more time invested for weekly cap than forming your own party.

Yes, I can do basic math, so stop your QQ and play the game.

If you want me to show you on paper the break downs I'll be glad to do another post.


PS, this isn't even including what you get from doing BCoB or CT, just the basic dungeons.