PVP - Another system that discourages use of the armory system

[casker]

i've seen worse systems.

I don't care if "there are worse systems." It's irrelevant to FFXIV. I want the system in THIS GAME to not suck.

and if your being competitive in pvp, its most likely better to stick to one class anyway.

Telling people what they "should do" is irrelevant to the quality of the system. The ENTIRE POINT of the armory system is to NOT PIGEONHOLE YOU INTO ONE CLASS and yet that's what it's best at apparently.

also i see them reducing the cost in the future. nothing is permanent

I want them to get it done faster. Being an apologist won't make them do anything.

[saber_alter]

I really don't know why you'd think so. Fill me in please.

i would, but i also think it would completely kill the purpose of having a locked point allocation in the first place. its meant so players are forced to think when allocating. same goes for the 30 stat points for PVE: think before you spec. i don't think they were thinking too hard when they thought out the idea. rather they had a basic concept, which was most likely to make people think before they spend. but it was poorly thought out..and thus, forces people by limiting them to a certain class...which does affect the armory system for pvp.

I agree. It would be nice if there was a PvP rank and a class rank.
Example: When you PvP with Arcanist (SMN/SCH) you gain exp towards your overall PvP rank and your Arcanist rank.
If you switch to Pugilist (MNK) you gain exp towards your overall PvP rank and your Pugilist rank.

this would have made more sense. this does the same thing without locking you out.

I want them to get it done faster. Being an apologist won't make them do anything.

kicking and screaming won't either. i find it harder to think when i'm panicking over one aspect of a large system that i dislike. i would rather do so.

got enough crap IRL to complain about.

[StarMarmot]

this would have made more sense. this does the same thing without locking you out.

Yep, agreed. What that guy said would be ideal, since it would allow you to actually "level" the alt you wish to play, not simply have a rank 30 in working condition at the press of a button.

[casker]

kicking and screaming won't (help) either.

Only because SQE is too stubborn to do what's good for the players. They'd rather implement unrealistic poopsock inducing grinds, just like with the housing.

[Kikosho]

PvP doesn't discourage use of the armory system, nor does anything else in the game. I'm really sick of people saying this. I'll agree that PvP respec costs too much, but that doesn't mean you're discouraged from playing more than one job. There are no lockouts on rewards, you can get them as fast as you can earn them, and starting pvp gear is crafted, inexpensive, and available to anyone.

Uhm, PvP doesn't negatively impact PvE. In fact it probably benefits it from the money crafters are making selling the starting PvP gear. It does not hurt you not to participate in PvP, nor has anything been nerfed because of PvP. Mechanic changes for PvP are only in effect in PvP and not PvE.

This system does discourage the armory system to from reaching it's full potential though. By design, it allows you to change jobs on the fly and fulfill a specific role that the party needs. This concept is watered down essentially because players are unable to properly gear up or respec on the alternate job (to the highest level) no matter how much effort they want to put in because they simply aren't allowed. This flaw is exasperated when it's completely bypassed by leveling a different character. Those players put in slightly more effort due to having to redo the main story by once that is accomplished they have a completely different job that is at the max potential* (potential calculated by the effort they put in due to not being blocked from advancing).

And if you think this wave of balancing didn't sneak in some adjustments for certain PvE abilities then you need to look harder. BLM's Scathe is the prime example of this and if you can't see why then I understand why you believe what you do. It's not overly drastic changes but they are there.

[Shiyo]

5k Marks is enough for two main pieces of gear. I would be better off making a new character, leveling monk to 50, and gearing my Monk and WHM separately for PVP. This is yet another system that tells me "lol make another character" and to ignore the fantastic armory system.

SE, please realize that the armory system exists when you design content, systems, and gearing. You keep neglecting it and pretending it doesn't exist. You keep designing content that mimics WOW, but WOW uses a 1 class per character system, and this game does not. You have not fixed a single problem with the armory system from release and continue to make it irrelevant.

[Alhanelem]

5k Marks is enough for two main pieces of gear. I would be better off making a new character, leveling monk to 50, and gearing my Monk and WHM separately for PVP.

No, you wouldn't, because you wouldn't earn seals any faster by playing alts than you would by playing on one character. In fact, playing alts would slow you down, because your rank on each alt would end up rising slower than if you played different jobs on the same character.

For this reason, PvP does not really discourage armory system use. The only real issue is with PvP actions. You'll only get a maximum of 30 AP, so that means 10 actions learned or fewer upgraded ones (though most of the upgrades aren't too worth it). Some of those actions can be used by many classes (purify is available to all) though, so the impact isn't that major.

The real reason for the "normalize pvp gear" thread comes to light here. You're just qqing that you can't immediately get rewards for every single job at the exact same time.

[Neo_Genesis]

5k Marks is enough for two main pieces of gear. I would be better off making a new character, leveling monk to 50, and gearing my Monk and WHM separately for PVP. This is yet another system that tells me "lol make another character" and to ignore the fantastic armory system.

SE, please realize that the armory system exists when you design content, systems, and gearing. You keep neglecting it and pretending it doesn't exist. You keep designing content that mimics WOW, but WOW uses a 1 class per character system, and this game does not. You have not fixed a single problem with the armory system from release and continue to make it irrelevant.

If they were, as you say, "completely ignoring the fantastic armory system," then why would they even give you and option to reset your AP?

[StarMarmot]

No, you wouldn't, because you wouldn't earn seals any faster by playing alts than you would by playing on one character. In fact, playing alts would slow you down, because your rank on each alt would end up rising slower than if you played different jobs on the same character.

For this reason, PvP does not really discourage armory system use. The only real issue is with PvP actions. You'll only get a maximum of 30 AP, so that means 10 actions learned or fewer upgraded ones (though most of the upgrades aren't too worth it). Some of those actions can be used by many classes (purify is available to all) though, so the impact isn't that major.

The real reason for the "normalize pvp gear" thread comes to light here. You're just qqing that you can't immediately get rewards for every single job at the exact same time.

Now you're doing the "you don't need the PvP actions" song and dance. At least that's what I guess you're trying to say with the "most upgrades aren't worth it", "some actions can be used by many classes" and the "impact isn't that major". It's like if you're raiding and get asked by your raid leader to play SCH for the evening. Your raid group has been struggling with a boss for several nights, but you're not going to pay the GC seals for the stat bonus reset and you're not going to buy any new stat food just for one night, because the impact of 20 main stat and buff food isn't that major, right? It's only about the equivalent of removing a piece of high level gear. Some people just aren't bothered at all with being the best they can be, and that's ok. The concerns brought up here are by people that like to make the most out of their character though.

If we want to optimize, spending an evening playing one round as a WHM, then two rounds as BLM and then rounding the day off with a few matches as DRG, that alone would be enough marks to buy a full set of gear pretty much, just in respec costs. So yes, while you wouldn't earn seals faster by playing on an alt character, you would definitely earn gear faster. Unless you want to play a warrior with 3 points in MND, 7 INT and 2 DEX with two MNK actions and one WHM action. But the loss there won't have much of an impact I guess.

While he mentioned gear trade-ins, I don't really think Shiyo wants "rewards for every single job at the exact same time". What he's MAINLY asking for is equal opportunity to use all his classes EFFECTIVELY. Without heavy penalties such as respec costs that take an entire day or more to grind out.

At any rate, the PvP system seems much better than the PvE counterpart in that regard. The only problem is the PvP actions and the respec cost. While I don't really agree with a respec cost at all, I'd be fine with something like 3-5 wins worth of seals I guess, but NOT 180.

[Naunet]

A lot of the skills are mandatory, playing without some of them are completely insane.

And this is precisely why I think it's absolutely idiotic to tie player skills to PvP progression. The gear disparity is more than enough of a disadvantage for folk just starting. That you can't even play with a fully functional skill set when you start is absurd. I don't know what Squeenix was smoking when they decided that, but it needs to change.