CCs

[Doolio]

Bringing it to l2p is pure spinning. It has nothing to do with that, it has to do with bad system, which people are discussing. You haven't said anything that counters what they have said, you have just described how you successfully cope with said bad system, which is irrelevant. Whether you are good or bad as a player has nothing to do with things discussed here.

[MercurialZero]

Whether you are good or bad as a player has nothing to do with things discussed here.

Actually, being a good or bad player does have something to do with it. The perception of the system is going to be different if you are bad at the system versus if you are good at the system.

That being said, I think you're exaggerating the problems quite a bit. It's certainly not a binary system, we're not running around with railguns insta-gibbing people. As for the pve-type damage, that really only applies to the potential output, the application is different. Last time I checked, pve bosses don't sprint away from you and try to LoS you around corners. I believe the system is good because it rewards coordination and adaptability, just as a PvP system should. The system needs tweaking, but it not as fatally flawed as people are claiming.

[Doolio]

Actually, being a good or bad player does have something to do with it. The perception of the system is going to be different if you are bad at the system versus if you are good at the system.

That being said, I think you're exaggerating the problems quite a bit. It's certainly not a binary system, we're not running around with railguns insta-gibbing people. As for the pve-type damage, that really only applies to the potential output, the application is different. Last time I checked, pve bosses don't sprint away from you and try to LoS you around corners. I believe the system is good because it rewards coordination and adaptability, just as a PvP system should. The system needs tweaking, but it not as fatally flawed as people are claiming.

Well, of course nothing is black and white, it's the way of the universe But still, I do think that the system is, if not fatally flawed (I don't believe in fatally flawed as a description, everything can be tweaked or even rebuilt), then at least heavily flawed.
I have played quite a bit of pvp across various games (similar or not) as I believe you have too - and I really find it odd that people would disagree in this matter. I really hope it's due to different wording for same opinions (maybe my "omg it's flawed" is the same as somebody's "well it's a bit flawed"). Nevertheless, I don't think it's irreparable. But I do say that this is the worst implementation of a pvp mode in a game I have ever seen. This is not meant as an insult to developers or something, it's just a non-colored statement.

Now, why I tend to jump in when people start talking about skill and l2p is because I am absolutely positive that nothing good comes of it and that it's spinning 101 and it derails the discussion in some direction which is fruitless in every possible way. I don't mean in general, I mean in this examples, with ffarr and pvp.

I am well aware that people that won't/can't adapt and evolve in a system, they will always lose and they will whine and they will perceive the whole thing as something, well, bad and frightening and chaotic and frantic. But, I am trying to say that here, that's not the point. For example, let's take quake and wow (just two random games from the top of my head, no "omg quake is cool" or "let's make everything into wow", I have no such allegiances ). In both games I have entered pretty late, so I was literally living for like two secs per spawn and everything was blurry and I was hitting wrong buttons and all that stuff. But never once I have felt that the system itself is flawed, I was always like "well, I guess I would have to try harder and practice" or something like that. Even when I was literally having no fun for hours because everybody else was on that train for years and I have just entered the fray.
Here, I see flaws upon flaws.

You can disagree and I respect that. But, just for the record, look at the post I was replying to and see why I have said that.