Do people really favor an FFXI grindfest format?

[Ventus]

It's very odd, just an observation not really decrying/commenting personally, but I've noticed a lot of people saying something along the lines of "Plz remove leves and get the party xp system back to ff11" and it hasn't just been just 1 or 2 people saying this but a vast majority and I don't understand how this is favorable. I don't know, I see the flaws in the leve system such as monotonous, repetitive cycles of doing dunesfolk/levinshower/cracked up etc, but was spending months and grinding for days and days of your life in ff11 really superior to any other alternative? Anyways, I just wanted to pose the topic and see what you guys thought .

[Warlyx]

because if u grind at least grind in party because is more fun , than soloing .....i love to party ....soloing is boring as hell...

but i prefer dungeons that FFXI leveling method....dungeons at least have bosses , and gear ....

@ vesperia : "their opinion doesnt really matter much", however dont bother asking them if u want "my opinion" ........

[Meph]

I dont want to get the leves removed, but i want to be able to grind in a party too, because i liked it in XI. This way i dont have to wait 36h until i can go on level my char and can do this whenever i want (after completing my leves already).

[Mack]

I prefer XI's boring ass grind which I enjoyed for 3 years over FFXIV's leve grind. I don't care to have FFXI's system back but there's gotta be something better than leves.

[Shika]

As a "weirdo" that has stuck with FFXIV, I personally get extremely bored of just doing leves over and over and over....
I would like people to party together more and travel around to kill different mobs for SP, just to break the monotony. I've done raptor parties, but no-one seems to party at lower ranks nowadays; for example I remember doing crabs at Cassi ~rank 15-20 (I think), but that was a long time ago. Basically it would be nice to have a balance between the two (with improvements of course- Rank 50 leves would be good).

Partying for SP and repeating leves both fall into the category of "grindfest"- how would you suggest that players gain SP instead?

[Gasher]

Right now FFXIV really does not have a good way to both improve your character AND your playing skills. At least not in a way which is fundamentally social over time and that builds on your skill to interact with other players at the same time. That is what I miss from FFXI. One of the primary reasons that quiting FFXI was never possible (until lolAbyssea) was that the social interactions and possibilities that came thereof were SO STRONG.

Aaaand sure... before someone rants up a response along the lines of "...all games must keep on evolving..." or "...right now some 16yr-old will discover FFXIV and come to love it just as you came to love FFXI...", these are all valid points and to some extent I have to agree (even though I do not want to).

My point is. I loved the XP-party style. I still think it was brilliantly put into play by the original developers of FFXI. It allowed for LOTS of 'food for thought' and during the years that FFXI was at it's peak, players were able to discuss amongst themselves about how to improve XP/hr (etc). The product of all this socialization in the game and in the actual party made it a great and loveable system. There was some actual value in one's accomplishments and this rubbed of on everthing else done in the game.

I am in favor of the XP-party play style and very excited to see if the creative minds at SE can come up with an even better system than what they did in FFXI.

[Lionix]

One of the primary reasons that quiting FFXI was never possible (until lolAbyssea) was that the social interactions and possibilities that came thereof were SO STRONG.

I stopped reading the thread right there because this man said it all. I'm really into co-operative play and like it was said before, they are both grindfests (are quest-chain grind MMO's any different?). Might as well be the one heavy on co-op.

There's something I've always argued with my friends: It could be the simplest, crappiest MMO with the least features and graphics out there, the only thing that actually makes it enjoyable and makes you stay is the community.

This is why linkshells/guilds/clans and friends are so important, and why we managed to play Ragnarok Online for some absurd amount of years (now THAT is a grindfest). And, well... Gasher said it all. It's why I played XI for an even more absurd amount of years (and no longer am).

[Duelle]

I stopped reading the thread right there because this man said it all. I'm really into co-operative play and like it was said before, they are both grindfests (are quest-chain grind MMO's any different?). Might as well be the one heavy on co-op.

At least quest chains hide the grind enough to make it not bore you to tears. And gives you interesting story tid bits and information on the setting and lore.

Co-op during dungeon runs (instances) and raids are awesome. That's where guild solidarity comes into play. The leveling process has to be its own separate thing, though. XI's leveling was designed around being very time sink-ish between mob placement, class balance (surely you remember the parties held hostage in Jeuno because of no NIN tanks or RDM/BRDs looking for group), and exp lost. Those of us who sat through all of it and have been exposed to other leveling schemes now know that XI had a pretty bad system in place. As I said, several friends of mine want quest-based leveling because like me, they're no longer in positions in life where we can dedicate the amount of time partying took in FFXI. They saw XIV as a repeat of XI, so they left.

And I'll see your RO (used to be a knight. never made it past that XD) and raise you Lineage II. Good times, indeed. =P

[Lionix]

At least quest chains hide the grind enough to make it not bore you to tears. And gives you interesting story tid bits and information on the setting and lore.

Co-op during dungeon runs (instances) and raids are awesome. That's where guild solidarity comes into play. The leveling process has to be its own separate thing, though. XI's leveling was designed around being very time sink-ish between mob placement, class balance (surely you remember the parties held hostage in Jeuno because of no NIN tanks or RDM/BRDs looking for group), and exp lost. Those of us who sat through all of it and have been exposed to other leveling schemes now know that XI had a pretty bad system in place. As I said, several friends of mine want quest-based leveling because like me, they're no longer in positions in life where we can dedicate the amount of time partying took in FFXI. They saw XIV as a repeat of XI, so they left.

And I'll see your RO (used to be a knight. never made it past that XD) and raise you Lineage II. Good times, indeed. =P

I do entirely agree that the system was "bad" practice, as it yielded less results because of those problems you've mentioned, compared to the other systems, but I thought finally getting it on was far more "fun". The time constraint is a very real one, I find myself in the same situation as you, I used to drop hours on end on the game and I can no longer do such a thing. What I think we need is:

-A working Looking for Party system (so we can do our things while we look, rather than standing on the Aetheryte), probably letting everyone that has the option on know when a person of a corresponding class and rank-range has turned on his LFP.
-For Christ's sake let me LFP on something I am not currently on. This would've made XI so much "easier" to work with.
-A proper search function. (Stop going backwards Square, for Christ's sake)
-Leve adjustment that really matter:
Seriously, they should be soloable for those days when you are low on time, but when I chose "Band", I HOPE it requires a BAND. You can crank up the stars and not even give a crap while being only a duo. It's important to note leves are underwhelming and even the story isn't entirely interesting, as if doing so many in the same zone isn't bad enough. They really need to spice up the story on them, perhaps make them more interactive sometimes, choosing different "paths" of the same leve ending in a different "boss" or culminating fight (because maybe your current small setup wouldn't do so good against the other kind of monster), involving NPC's (defend gathering NPC's, escorting, etc. This would be only on multi-star leves, of course). They need to up the difficulty in general, not just raise the mob's attack and defense proportionate to stars (give them new skills and behaviors, something worthy of a party).

So, all in all, I understand your situation entirely but I still enjoy the constant co-op and wish I had it accessible (rather than forced) at all times and what I think is that both options should be there, while the party being more beneficial, for those who can put the time to it (investing the same amount of time on the solo version and getting the same or more is pretty illogical, which would we chose?). The problem is that the leves are terribly unpolished and can't cater to both playstyles properly and our means of finding other people are terribly limited. We should cater to the solo as a choice, not make it the top choice. And we certainly shouldn't have to wait for hours upon hours for a party to show just because you chose to be a Puppetmaster rather than a Bard.

Hell, maybe even make special "party leves" that ask you to kill like 50 or more of a mobs, rather than just 5 or 8. Then everyone would be happy and we wouldn't be forced on it.

TL;DR: Would could have the best of both worlds because our quests are "difficulty" adjustable, so why don't we?

And I don't even know if raising you a PSO is fair game.

[Mack]

I am in favor of the XP-party play style and very excited to see if the creative minds at SE can come up with an even better system than what they did in FFXI.

I doubt its ever coming. Leves are and will always be central to the game, they aren't going anywhere. We're stuck with repeatable quests for FFXIV and most likely dungeons and stuff. This game really sh*t the bed big time.