TO DEVELOPER please read this

[Ronzeru]

With all the threads and people mouthing off about 'why take a melee when you can take a ranged class', you do realize this was bound to happen right? People kinda shot themselves in the foot.

[xardus]

With all the threads and people mouthing off about 'why take a melee when you can take a ranged class', you do realize this was bound to happen right? People kinda shot themselves in the foot.

usually in pug is preferred take a ranged just because most of melee are not good at avoiding aoe,for example in ads,you can stun and is very usefull,but you still have to avoid things and most melee dps you have to admit,stay in their position taking all dmgs

EDIT : just want to correct me,i dont mean that melee dps are idiots hehehehe but when u look for random pug you can find everything,isnt easy avaoid so much player wich are new to their class play it very bad

[Truedragon]

usually in pug is preferred take a ranged just because most of melee are not good at avoiding aoe,for example in ads,you can stun and is very usefull,but you still have to avoid things and most melee dps you have to admit,stay in their position taking all dmgs

Your attitude is why ranged classes got nerfed. A lot of bosses do instant aoe casts without warning. Chain lightning and random aoe attacks from clockwork knights for instance. That damage is unavoidable for melee dps and has nothing to do with skills from the player. What you considered a "bad dps", is in reality the game mechanics that is heavily flavored towards ranged dps and highly biased towards close range melees.

Given how unbalanced the game was, even a 4 year old kid could have told you what patch 2.1 was going to do ranged dps. But ofc, living in a state of denial meant that 90% of the casters did not see the 2.1 nerf coming...

It was clear as night and day to everyone else that change was coming. I have never seen a wp speedrun where people asked for a melee dps. In fact, you have people shouting for 2 brds for coil even though you only need 1 bard at most. And there is only room for 1 token melee dps (just for the LB). If it wasnt for the LB, most groups would rather have 4 ranged dps and no melee at all. When you have things that are this skewed, you know they are going to change it.

[xardus]

Your attitude is why ranged classes got nerfed. A lot of bosses do instant aoe casts without warning. Chain lightning and random aoe attacks from clockwork knights for instance. That damage is unavoidable for melee dps and has nothing to do with skills from the player. What you considered a "bad dps", is in reality the game mechanics that is heavily flavored towards ranged dps and highly biased towards close range melees.

Given how unbalanced the game was, even a 4 year old kid could have told you what patch 2.1 was going to do ranged dps. But ofc, living in a state of denial meant that 90% of the casters did not see the 2.1 nerf coming...
It was clear as night and day to everyone else that change was coming. I have never seen a wp speedrun where people asked for a melee dps. In fact, you have people shouting for 2 brds for coil even though you only need 1 bard at most. And there is only room for 1 token melee dps (just for the LB). If it wasnt for the LB, most groups would rather have 4 ranged dps and no melee at all. When you have things that are this skewed, you know they are going to change it.

i can be agree with you,and im in most of things,but your examples dosnt work really good for me,just because with my fc we often use a monk for silencing in t1,t2 is different,for allagan rots is more handle have 6 caster for debuff managing,it can be done in 5 but there are lots of not good player\first timers who dont watch video so its easier use 6x tactic,i totally agree with melee buff dmg,but for another reason
melee when have to avoid aoe has to stop their dps (well blm has too but for ranged isnt necessary come back to boss so less moving time) and then they need an higer dps output

im not agree about melee dps has to be stronger in dps at every costs,melee has the strong point of higher armor than casters,dont avoid an aoe in most cases take 50% of you hp,for a caster it takes about 80%hp ,melee dps has a very strong point that is stun\silence (dont know if dragoon has both correct me if im wrong) wich makes u essential in most boss fights,if you are a good player you will always find a group,you will make friends who look for you when has to build a run and so on, i also have a small monk im finishing to equip for coil,what i can see doing primals is that without 2.1buff on titan i do a little lower dps than with my summoner with r+1 and half myth equip,and (at least for me) is much easier optimise your dps than a summoner,i didnt play blm so i cant say nothing in that way but think is much easier optimise dps than smn

anyway my attidude is "give me an explanation" ranged nerf is neccessary for pvp but i dont understand why is necessary for pve,just with melee buffs they are on same level,not needed to lower dmg,so they should have thinked a lot before doing,for bard gived an explanation in live letter,but for smn\blm they passed throug forgetting it completely

[PriyaJugulataris]

Also, Xard, the higher DPS doesn't mean higher overall. We ranged have more uptime then melee due to them having to dodge boss mechanics. As such, we have more time typically to do full DPS. Are there gonna be some fights in which they beat us? Yeah. Are there gonna fights where we beat them? Yeah. Ranged holds banquet on AoE right now summoner DPS while affected by the nerf and I'm rather pissed about, still is gonna be up there on most instances.

[PriyaJugulataris]

*post*

Here's the thing. Ranged DPS is still going to be preferred. While melee is more viable now since you all have been buffed (especially monks), most boss mechanics are still melee centric, and rather than having to deal with the chance that people will be able to avoid said mechanic, the safe bet will always be to take ranged. The true ideal fix to this situation would be to incorporate more ranged boss mechanics to force all classes to deal with such. Also, 2.1 nerf was only towards bards as far as we knew. It's also cuz the dev say things like: "As I mentioned during the previous LIVE letter, there are a lot of cases where melee combos and chains are interrupted making burst DPS difficult, so dragoon and monk will be receiving roughly a 10% increase in damage per second. Rather than reducing the effectiveness of other classes, we will be making adjustments to increase certain elements this time."

[Truedragon]

post."

Agreed. It is just my hunch, but I believe game mechanics may have changed a bit to where bosses and dungeons deal more attacks against ranged dps. They said something about bard doing more damage the further away they are. This would only make any sense if the bosses now target long distance fighters.

Dont quote me on this. We would have to wait till tomorrow to test things out.

@xardus melee dps has to be in close range (ie taking high risks) while ranged dps have full freedom of movement, no stance requirements and virtually take no risks at all. This is the reason why melee dps must have higher dps. With high risks should come high rewards. Low risks, low rewards. There is no point in playing melee if they do not fix this.

[xardus]

Agreed. It is just my hunch, but I believe game mechanics may have changed a bit to where bosses and dungeons deal more attacks against ranged dps. They said something about bard doing more damage the further away they are. This would only make any sense if the bosses now target long distance fighters.

Dont quote me on this. We would have to wait till tomorrow to test things out.

@xardus melee dps has to be in close range (ie taking high risks) while ranged dps have full freedom of movement, no stance requirements and virtually take no risks at all. This is the reason why melee dps must have higher dps. With high risks should come high rewards. Low risks, low rewards. There is no point in playing melee if they do not fix this.

just an example,titan stomps (argh i dont remember skill name atm hehe) in p5 any ranged is reduced at 10% hp,melee has about 50,its full of cases where caster has to move costantly,i think if you play one you will understand better,i have a monk too but didnt play so much untill 1 week ago,and i found it easier than summoner,maybe i didnt know and im pro with melee but i always did ranged class in mmo with greater results hehe and usually ranged class are the massive dps but easier to play and melee are much difficult but when managed correctly do greater dmg,are different mechanics but that how all mmo\paper rpg works usually,everyone has his strong side in specific situation,now those balance is broken at least for smn (the only i can talk with knowledge)
i still want to test on first person this changes,paper maths are not always the same as real thing but there is something strange in this loss of dps,time will say but we really like an explanation like for bard nerf (wich i remember is considered a support class and not a pure dps class like blm\smn)
ppl are also pissed off for summoner because has some microbug in pets which are not considered by dev,if they fix something with this nerf let ppl take it easier and dont react as a crowd of demons

@PriyaJugulataris : im agree that our dps will still be good but you have to admit that difficult to sustain smn dps is very high,not because of mech skills but because we have many many skills to check costantly,dots duration,aetherflow recast,fester recast and SF wich takes you to press skill button and then drag to mob and then press wich take u a little less than 1 second,without thunder will be easier but not so much,our natural loss of dps with phase change of some boss like primals wich jump vanishing dot time or continuos moving to avoid aoe (yes we ranged have aoe to avoid too ppl) where you loose ur refresh rotation and cant have all of theme up,melee has a more "quick" dps (well not for blm i suppose) but summoner has a playstile completely different of any other class in the game,so cant be generalised nerfed as a normal caster like blm is

[Truedragon]

post

There is no noticable difference between Brd and Mnk hp. And nothing that cant be overcome with vit materia melds. Your argument is weak. There is nothing you cant overcome with some gear swapping. Just swapping 1 acessory for a tank accessory, instantly gave my SCH 200+ hp for Titan.

Knowing the fight, is 90% of Titan done.

The biggest difference between melee and mages in Titan is positioning. I have to be close to Titan to attack. I have to avoid plumes and run back to the same area EVERYTIME. I lose dps when Titan jumps. I lose dps when bombs fall. I lose dps when I miss my rotation. As a ranged dps, I can attack from the left, from the right, from the back, from the front.