Huge SMN nerf: we're losing Thunder

[Kalandros]

Its not a big nerf.

SMN was #1 DPS above BLM for end-game content (Twintania).
I don't see an issue with both the mage classes being brought in-line with other classes.

Our damage output really was the best.

Dot up twintania, dread knight appears: Oh look, our dots tick away on Twintania AND on the Dread Knight! (cast miasma asap though, don't be a baddie) while BLM can only dps one target (plus lucky thunder procs that can upkeep it on maybe 2 targets)

Seriously, losing Thunder will not mean the end of the class, all you wannabes are blowing things out of proportion and calling foul for no good reason.
Play the patch, look at the numbers, maybe we won't be #1 all the time, but we'll still be up there because our DPS uptime will always be greater than Melee and other ranged classes.

[Kevee]

Its not a big nerf.

SMN was #1 DPS above BLM for end-game content (Twintania).
I don't see an issue with both the mage classes being brought in-line with other classes.

Our damage output really was the best.

Dot up twintania, dread knight appears: Oh look, our dots tick away on Twintania AND on the Dread Knight! (cast miasma asap though, don't be a baddie) while BLM can only dps one target (plus lucky thunder procs that can upkeep it on maybe 2 targets)

Seriously, losing Thunder will not mean the end of the class, all you wannabes are blowing things out of proportion and calling foul for no good reason.
Play the patch, look at the numbers, maybe we won't be #1 all the time, but we'll still be up there because our DPS uptime will always be greater than Melee and other ranged classes.

Stop supporting horrible game design.

[Resultsmayvary]

No, DoTs retain damage buffs beyond the buff duration--Until the DoT expires.

No no no, I got that part, what I mean is, in the math he/she did, nearly all things listed are DoT's, because that's what you do, which if using an INT potion would add to their DPS as well.

I think possibly I'm missing something or don't understand a specific Summoner ability that's creating a situation different than the one I'm visualizing.

[AjoraOak]

So I guess ifrit is more likely a better choice now as much as I hate it?

[Kevee]

No no no, I got that part, what I mean is, in the math he/she did, nearly all things listed are DoT's, because that's what you do, which if using an INT potion would add to their DPS as well.

I think possibly I'm missing something or don't understand a specific Summoner ability that's creating a situation different than the one I'm visualizing.

Thunder gets more contribution from an int potion/raging strikes than Ruin because the benefit goes beyond the timer of the buff.

[Kevee]

So I guess ifrit is more likely a better choice now as much as I hate it?

No.

Ifrit is still 100% useless.

[Malamasala]

Our damage output really was the best.

It may have been good for long drawn out fights, but it was always very bad at killing things quickly. So we better just hope none of the new content involves killing trash mobs, or SMN is going to be the least desired DPS in the game.

Unless of course SE adds some skill that is very high spike damage.

[Starkbeaumont]

while I dislike a nerf in general, if smn was really that strong (like 350 DPS on Twintania that ppl claimed after the patch notes) 10% less dmg is still on par with other DDs (or even stronger... hey BRDs). I think the real problem comes with the unnecessary huge boost of MNK

[Gamemako]

His/her post is not factoring in RS, Contagion, Contagion+RS, or Int pots.

Raging Strikes is multiplicative and would have no impact at all on a fully continuous basis. The ability can only deviate from this based on discontinuities. Given of the duration, effect, and cooldown of Raging Strikes, any such effects would certainly fall into the margin of error; in an absolute best case, you'd get 20% of two extra Thunder replacements per 360s which is 64 potency per 360s. This is negligible. INT pots also aren't going to nearly push the needle one way or the other; a <15% buff over 1 use of thunder is less than 24 potency per 270s.

Contagion, however, can have a non-trivial impact, so I will include it. It applies 5 ticks of a DoT per 60 seconds. Over 360 seconds (6 uses, or 30 ticks), this is 1050 potency for Thunder, Miasma, and BioII. Bio gets 1200 due to ticking at 40 potency. This is 3300 for post-nerf case and 4350 for pre-nerf case. Thus, your Contagion-corrected reduction ratio is 44000/48250 = 0.912 -- an 8.8% reduction.

Thunder gets more contribution from an int potion/raging strikes than Ruin because the benefit goes beyond the timer of the buff.

That is misleading. Accounting the alternative per GCD gives neither greater benefit. Thunder gives you 240 potency from its GCD and Ruin gives 80, being 3x the potency per GCD. Under Raging Strikes, both gain 20%, and the potency ratio is still 3x -- nothing has changed. It would be more accurate to state that DoTs do not suffer reduced benefit -- the benefit is identical to that enjoyed by an ability which applies all damage up front.

[LarsCroft]

nerf summoners way too op in pvp