SMN - Why it is not a very interesting job and not a good upgrade from ACN

[Kevee]

Kevee what ever happened to your face? It doesn't show up anymore.

I went to a new server. It's not updated for everyone yet.

[Madoka]

I think the Bane change yoshi mentioned is just an effective range boost, not more targets. So that if your group of 3 enemies it setup that one is just slightly too far away from the other 2 bane would miss now, it won't miss it in the future.

[Babydoll]

I think the Bane change yoshi mentioned is just an effective range boost, not more targets. So that if your group of 3 enemies it setup that one is just slightly too far away from the other 2 bane would miss now, it won't miss it in the future.

That is what I was thinking too, it is either gonna be that or we get to hit more targets *dreams*

[Aphrini]

Very cool I ran Hornie ls for years on Cerberus

[Borfin]

In everything you listed Summons are useless and the person using them is better off doing other things.

Too bad as previously stated, this has precisely zilcho to do with the recurring thematic design of summoners, which is what people are largely taking issue with.

[Kevee]

Too bad as previously stated, this has precisely zilcho to do with the recurring thematic design of summoners, which is what people are largely taking issue with.

Did you even read the post I was responding to?

No?

Here, I'll pull it up for you;

The summons always had a bigger part to play than the summoner itself or equal in most of the titles. This is not the case in ffxiv, and I'm not talking about the primal themselves here.

And what recurring thematic design? You mean how it was drastically changed in 10, 11, 12 and 13 and no one complained?
The them changed from "big 'powerful' spell/lending of power" to a "companion." Them changing from a strong looking nuke to many smaller actions?

"But Zelia! That's Gameplay!"

No, it ties into theme. The theme of the summons is that they aren't as menacing because they can persist and do more, interact more, than simply be beings of destruction.

[Seobit]

And lol ... you must be a warlock/WoW fanboy.

You're not making any sense. It's well agreed upon that SMN is harder to play than BLM and that nobody likes a bad SMN. I don't see how WoW or warlocks have anything to do with this. Are you so stuck in your ideas of not liking the current implementation of summoners that it's all you can think of when people mention them?

[Borfin]

You're not making any sense. It's well agreed upon that SMN is harder to play than BLM and that nobody likes a bad SMN. I don't see how WoW or warlocks have anything to do with this. Are you so stuck in your ideas of not liking the current implementation of summoners that it's all you can think of when people mention them?

SMN plays almost identically to affliction warlocks in WoW. That goes without even saying. I love my SMN, but it plays JUST like my 'lock did.

I, and many others, would prefer a different, unique implementation. This is what this thread is largely about, you realize.

Did you even read the post I was responding to?

No?

Here, I'll pull it up for you;

I did. And I don't think you did (you've shown reading comprehension issues in this very thread after all). The way I read it wasn't "summons do more damage", it's "they have a larger part to play". Which is true - summons have been a strong centerpiece of most of the later Final Fantasy titles. Espers/Magicite, GFs, Eidolons, Aeons have all been an extremely centric part of their respective games. You yourself have admitted this. How much power they had in battle or how much damage they dealt is, again, completely, 100% irrelevant (I didn't see cities disappearing every time I summoned Bahamut in FF9, for example.) You can argue Primals fill this role, and I would agree with you.

And what recurring thematic design? You mean how it was drastically changed in 10, 11, 12 and 13 and no one complained?
The them changed from "big 'powerful' spell/lending of power" to a "companion." Them changing from a strong looking nuke to many smaller actions?

This is probably the first valid point you've made. There's still 6 (7 if you count Tactics) other iterations in the standard franchise that disagree with that however. And in none of the ones you mentioned did summoners utilize Black Magic without cross-classing (or something similar). That's unique to 4, and even then only Bio(/Virus depending on translation) and Poison were DoT effects, and Death of course (loosely) following the theme we have today.

Recurring white magic is present, and we have that. The only other thing they've all had in common was - yeah, of course, summons. Don't get me wrong, I get that for balance purposes we CAN'T have the summon do all the damage - but there's other routes SE could take.

"But Zelia! That's Gameplay!"

No, it ties into theme. The theme of the summons is that they aren't as menacing because they can persist and do more, interact more, than simply be beings of destruction.

...except that if you don't have them cross-class (except for 12, which was... an oddball at best with the license system) of all the games you mentioned the summon was, again, the summoner's primary offensive tool, whether companion or otherwise. That's what I don't like about it. It's a change from my favorite franchise, and that franchise is largely what brought me to FFXIV. I don't want to be a mage who has a summon at his side. I want my summon to be where my power comes from, even if it's just a flavor thing. If I'm casting Hellfire instead of, I don't know, Miasma and it applies the same DoT with the same potency, it's still more in-line with what previous games have done.

That's a personal beef, but this entire thread is about personal beefs, so it's on-topic.

edit: I hadn't considered 13. Technically all of these could apply to 13 with its system. Obviously summons weren't a primary offensive tool in 13, but 13 is also a bit of an outlier. You can make an argument for them going away from the original recurring theme from 3-11, but that's part of what I don't like about it anyway.

[Seobit]

Its difficulty of playing or desirability compared to a BLM still has absolutely 0 to do with WoW.

I play a SMN because at release I thought carbuncle was cute. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Crevox]

...except that if you don't have them cross-class (except for 12, which was... an oddball at best with the license system) of all the games you mentioned the summon was, again, the summoner's primary offensive tool, whether companion or otherwise. That's what I don't like about it. It's a change from my favorite franchise, and that franchise is largely what brought me to FFXIV. I don't want to be a mage who has a summon at his side. I want my summon to be where my power comes from, even if it's just a flavor thing. If I'm casting Hellfire instead of, I don't know, Miasma and it applies the same DoT with the same potency, it's still more in-line with what previous games have done.

This guy gets it... at least one major point of the post