Anyone see this yet? 2 WAR Coil T5

[Viridiana]

The mechanics might still be there, but it is significantly more difficult to beat the fights the way they were intended, rather than just abusing PLD cooldowns to ignore mechanics.

Like it or not, you're playing on 'easy mode' when you chose to take the 'easy tank'.

By "abusing" you mean "using them at all," right?

That's like playing an FPS balanced around a pistol and saying it's "easy mode" to use the machine gun the game hands you. . .

[TaneshimaPopura]

Gawd damn. 2 Days of internet down and this hard mode easy mode debate is still going on.

Paikis wants his own Grammy just let him rub his acne face on it an make it shinier. It's his business. There are some little achievements people want to make it like an Oscar so be it, when it is really just being a nominee candidate. Its like...

Hey I got nominated the Best Newcomer Actor, on a film which was directed by a shitty director and a pathetic script. One can go an argue that cause the script was so shitty he didn't need to act the part to be good, or one could say he was like a rose growing out of a pile of cow dung. Impressive but if pictured as whole, it is still a Flower on a cow dung nonetheless.

There is Hardmode only if the devs put that option.

@kayuwoody
Paikis ain't doing it on hardmode. The other 7 people are doing it on hardmode. I will recognize the party effort but not the tank effort.

[Paikis]

<snip> personal attacks, baseless accusations and willful ignorance of reality <endsnip>

Haters gonna hate.

[SpookyGhost]

Just some thoughts on hard mode vs easy mode:

2x Paladin is easy mode for turn 1 and 2 of Coil. Turns 4 and 5, I feel, are actually significantly easier with PLD + WAR. Eventually, with proper gear, a WAR can do what a PLD already does with Turn 1. But it will always be optimal to have 2x PLD for Turn 2 as an extra silence + ability to stoneskin your co-tank is invaluable. Turn 4 is where I feel WAR overtakes PLD as off tank. You burn the Dreadnaught faster by giving yourself and the PLD the Storm's Eye debuff, you kill the spiders faster, snap aggro is a lot more manageable with WAR, etc. As long as you can make it through the final phase with the Soldier + Knight + Rook + Spider then you're golden. Obviously early on maaaaybe PLD would be better? Simply because of having HG for Dreadnaughts or that final phase? I'm not sure.

Turn 5 is a bit.. strange. I suppose this Turn can be debated as for now, but once 2.1 comes I feel like WAR + PLD will clearly outshine PLD + PLD in this instance. The troubles that the WAR faces that the PLD doesn't, currently, is having to hold all the small snakes in place waiting on mage LB as well as standing in the neurolink while taking balls to the face. In 2.1 I feel WAR will be able to Holmgang + Bloodbath + Vengeance + (Unchained? I assume you'd have 5 Wrath at this point... though depending on how mitigation stacks it might be better to do IB instead) + OP spam for the Snakes and never worry about being absolutely murdered. For the neurolink bit we now have mitigation so taking those won't be as much of an issue.

Something I'm interested in is if, in 2.1, a perfect party for solo WAR will be able to speed run Coil faster than a perfect party for solo PLD. Guess we'll see when the time comes.

[TaneshimaPopura]

@ Paikis

The 1st Paikis Hardmode Gamer Award goes to .... Paikis! See what I did there?

[AppleGrocer]

Paikis ain't doing it on hardmode. The other 7 people are doing it on hardmode. I will recognize the party effort but not the tank effort.

As a Warrior tank, I couldn't agree with this more. It's the one reason why the whole "Warriors are just harder" argument is a waste of time. We aren't harder to play, we are just harder to keep up. When you or I IB it's not 'reacting to spike damage,' it's praying that our healers react accordingly to our lower healing received while we essentially run around in circles flailing our Axe in the air screaming "I'm helping! I'm helping!"

I'm not saying that using IB is bad, or that Warriors are unusable in Coil. I make my group run with my Warrior every week, and I use IB all the time, and sometimes I don't even Infuriate right after (scandalous, I know). But let's not joke ourselves into thinking that we are the ones that are working harder. It's the healers that have to play on hardmode/normal mode/harder-than-paladin mode with a Warrior tank.

There might be something to the sentiment that Paladins "carry groups through Coil" since it allegedly was balanced for Warriors (which I think is a somewhat misguided sentiment, I just think that the class balance was off in the higher tiers of content). But, that's kind of silly too. That's like saying wearing shoes is easy-mode since the ground was balanced for bare feet.

[Klive]

I like they brought two melee dps and a summoner. I'm so sick of bard and blm stacking for dps. Wish I could convince more people to do coil builds other than what the guide on youtube says.

[C-croft]

You can consider dual WAR tanking hard mode or normal mode. As it stands taking double WARs right now only makes thing harder (mode) for the rest of the party. Some people are masochists and probably like it anyway. But how is making something harder for yourself and party, not considered hard mode?

[Maqaqa]

From the interview on Famitsu:

Is there anything specific about Paladin which you got wrong?
Yoshida: I think the combination of moves along with Hallowed Ground can be used to the point where it is too strong.
In other words, people used paladins because that block was more easily fit into the socket.
Yoshida: Yes, and by adopting a two paladin configuration, it makes it even easier to complete the content.

So yes to be fair, PLD/PLD is easy mode.
Im not the one saying it.
And by all means, if you like this setup, go for it; just stop pretending its the "right" way to do it.
Its the easiest way.

[AppleGrocer]

But saying it like that is silly. It's like saying "I write hard mode reports because I use an ink well and a quill, I don't use that easy mode pen stuff"

Yeah, it's technically true, but pointing it out is silly. Just because you choose to shove the square shaped peg into the round hole doesn't mean that you're playing on 'hard mode'

Actually, it's not even that. You're making the 7 other guys you run with shove your square shaped self into round shaped content.

What needs to be kept in mind is that the difficulty of the content doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is the difference in facility between an optimized group and a sub-optimal one when running it.