Evasion tank concept, branching from Musketeer.

[NeonC]

Those don't even look like tanks, I would not trust that guy to hold Titan from mauling our whole party, I mean what can he do? Shoot him in the foot? I'm not saying looks dictate anything per se. I trust a Lalafell to tank as strong as the next, though there is always that doubt in the back of my mind. Point is you have to draw the realism line in the sand SOMEWHERE.

[Duuude007]

Those don't even look like tanks, I would not trust that guy to hold Titan from mauling our whole party, I mean what can he do? Shoot him in the foot? I'm not saying looks dictate anything per se. I trust a Lalafell to tank as strong as the next, though there is always that doubt in the back of my mind. Point is you have to draw the realism line in the sand SOMEWHERE.

That was an image of a fixer ready to do the quest for their equivalent of AF1, known as grid armor. Significantly boosts character's base evasion.

Its a 15 year-old scifi MMO, so conditions would not necessarly be the same but...

[Nayto]

Those don't even look like tanks, I would not trust that guy to hold Titan from mauling our whole party, I mean what can he do? Shoot him in the foot? I'm not saying looks dictate anything per se. I trust a Lalafell to tank as strong as the next, though there is always that doubt in the back of my mind. Point is you have to draw the realism line in the sand SOMEWHERE.

Trained years on firearms, Musketeers develop a keen sense of observation and reactionary skills. Unlike their archer counterparts musket bullets fly faster than arrows, hence they are trained with the utmost discrepancy to reacting immediately on sound.
There's the... logic
I mean Yda was able to parry a bullet while your tank well... just tanks it and dies. (1.0 CS) Sure realistically you can't have reaction speed that matches the speed of sound, but Yda (a monk nonetheless) does and we do have that possible potential to reach that kind of being.
Remember the guy is speculating if Muskateer becomes the EVASION tank... which isn't too far off thanks to LOLHOLLYWOOD.

Sort of a shotgun concept, more effective at close range. Me likey.

Oh whoops, guess I'm backing up your idea with the wrong intentions... still I prefer the gun kata idea rather than a close range 'heavy hitter'.

[Vanidin]

I'm not sure how evasion tanks would work given the games setup. If you have a tank that avoids damage then your healing requirements are reduced, so do you now run one less healer and add an extra dps to the group? If that's the case then warrior and paladin are officially relegated to "let's go old school for fun" status, why wouldn't you ALWAYS pick the option that gives you the most damage?

You have to make an evasion tank squishy enough that they can be killed easily if they aren't maintaining their evasion stuffs... otherwise balance goes right out the window. Another possibility is to cap how much evasion such a tank can achieve to maintain healer demand through inevitable damage however you risk creating a niche market of evasion tanks and burst healers when you do that. That scenario also prompts a need for more twitch response playing from the healers. There's a difference between fast paced mechanics and needing to start casting a heal within 1/10 of a second of the tank taking damage. (Obviously I'm being somewhat facetious to make a point)

Even in scenarios where composition is mandatory such as 4 mans evasion tanks would have a premium advantage, as healers could go nearly full time dps due to the lack of damage being taken. (And let's be honest, given SE's track record for balancing classes, especially tank classes you have to expect that it would be either OP or UP.)

[NeonC]

Well perhaps a heightened sense of awareness could help, but how could they evade a 6 pack of Tonberry's throat stabbing them? Eventually they will take one right in the kisser, and I don't know about you but I'll take my chances with a Paladin or Warrior(in 2.1 of course, I'm a frail Bard and a very pretty one I just don't like taking the risk). I mean who knows right? If Harrison Ford can Solo tank this boss mob I guess it can be done

[Nayto]

Well perhaps a heightened sense of awareness could help, but how could they evade a 6 pack of Tonberry's throat stabbing them?

Watch some kung-fu movies.... way too many typical "I took on 5 guys and didn't get a scratch" scenerios. I don't even support the musketeer evasion tank idea... just pointing out that it is possible because of I just love this guy and that's all I see if Musketeer becomes an evasion tank.

Furthermore I keep forgetting Duude wants it to be a mystic knight so....


Reason why I said that is because of what Vanidin has just brought up. We recently just added more 'mitigation' to the Warrior because their self heals just causes unnecessary overhealing, even with critical inner-beast hits. On top of that rellying on critical inner-beasts or anything RNG related is a no-no in tankonomics appearently. (Yeah flash blind is still useful, but you aren't solely rellying on that as well, it just 'adds on' and appearently there's not a steady value carried with it in the 'how much damage was saved' equation).

An evasion tank is something that sounds heavily RNG based on paper. If we have consistant evasion, then it's pretty much the go-to tank because "lol no-need to heal anymore!". However if there's not enough 'evasion' CDs or mechanics then the 'requires too much healing' complaint comes up.

Because right now the standard 'mitigation' from the warrior is squishy at the most and has been said to require 'too much care from healers'.

[Duuude007]

A note to this argument about all or none evasion: If you can partially block, partially parry, why can't you partially evade?
Even Neo got grazed by the bullet in that posted video example, joke or not.

[Nayto]

A note to this argument about all or none evasion: If you can partially block, partially parry, why can't you partially evade?

A lot of the RNG mechanics is added last to the grand scheme of tankonomics (from what I glanced). Vitality is first before worrying about your blockrate/parry rate. That's why there's little tanks going the DEX build route because blocking isn't reliable enough.
I mean I'd love the idea to become a gun-kata mystic knight but with how Warrior was handled they'd need to double check how to cope on the evasion's tank 'squishyness'.

And warriors are using the same armour as PLDs too. Most likely the evasion tank will be using the same thing as to what LNC wears (chainmail,lightweight plated armour such as bone).

Furthermore while looking for 'evasion tank' concepts on the tanking forum one user pointed it out loud and clear and is the bane of the evasion tank ideal.

The job of the tank is to eliminate chance, not rely on it.

[Duuude007]

but with how Warrior was handled they'd need to double check how to cope on the evasion's tank 'squishyness'.

I agree.

That said, I feel there is a need for at least 1 more 'breed' of tank in XIV, that is why I was floating this concept.

After all, why does every job have to be based on XI designs? Ninja may return in XIV, but I believe the role of blink/evasion tank could be reassigned, and Ninja could fill an alternate niche.

[Nayto]

I agree.

That said, I feel there is a need for at least 1 more 'breed' of tank in XIV, that is why I was floating this concept.

After all, why does every job have to be based on XI designs? Ninja may return in XIV, but I believe the role of blink/evasion tank could be reassigned, and Ninja could fill an alternate niche.

Well.. we can take a 180 and go the 'engineer' route with musketeers (especially with the large gun idea) and Ninja can be relegated to a DD (I mean Monk has an evasion stance but it hasn't reliably tanked anything yet).