melee dps buffs + bard nerf = cumulative effect too much?

[MartaDemireux]

And what exactly are they doing to make DPS Bard class more supportive? Lowering dps does not make you support. Bard has only 3 supportive skills and only 1 can be used at the same time, thats all.. What about giving us CNJ cross skills while lowering dps. 3 ballads, raise, stoneskin, heal.. yup, that seems pretty supportive to me. ))

As said before, ACN is superior for giving this DPS a more supporting role. Heal, in-battle-non-trait-dependent raise, and lower incoming damage to entire group via 2 methods (EfaE/virus) which can be rotated with the healers for a lot of uptime.

Bard's role is DPS but they are support focused DPS which people are getting hung up/confused on. They queue as DPS, they attack monsters but their charm and primary use comes in the form of their supporting songs which makes them indeed support. The only issue here is in XIV all support roles come in the form of augmented DPS roles.

[StrejdaTom]

As said before, ACN is superior for giving this DPS a more supporting role. Heal, in-battle-non-trait-dependent raise, and lower incoming damage to entire group via 2 methods (EfaE/virus) which can be rotated with the healers for a lot of uptime.

Bard's role is DPS but they are support focused DPS which people are getting hung up/confused on. They queue as DPS, they attack monsters but their charm and primary use comes in the form of their supporting songs which makes them indeed support. The only issue here is in XIV all support roles come in the form of augmented DPS roles.

In my opinion the main problem is, that good parties in coil do not need mana and even bards silence. So if they lower the dps and do not give bard something else he will be useless. I really like the idea of support brd but to fulfill that role he needs more support not 3 ballads which arent even needed in endgame. Thats why CNJ would be awesome.

[Viridiana]

I really like the idea of support brd but to fulfill that role he needs more support not 3 ballads which arent even needed in endgame. Thats why CNJ would be awesome.

But CNJ spells would be even more useless, with the possible exception of Stoneskin.

Cure - We don't have the stats to make this worthwhile. Nothing we can do with it that can't be better done by an actual healer, unless we're somehow saving a wipe.
Aero - Even less useful, as it would be strictly inferior to any of our native moves.
Protect - We literally can't use this if there's a WHM in the party who's used it.
Raise - Can't be used in combat, so any time it could be used in a dungeon it would probably be faster to release and run back.
Stoneskin - An awesome spell, though we'd be relegated to in-combat casting, which would only situationally be worth it.

[Akirakogami]

At least 3 classes have silence, without count Selene.

why then the insane value put on bard's silence? people seem to think it is so important that bard doesn't need to bring any dps to the table because they have it.

bard is a dps class. There is NO SUPPORT ROLE in ffxiv.

[Viridiana]

why then the insane value put on bard's silence? people seem to think it is so important that bard doesn't need to bring any dps to the table because they have it.

Because people latch onto the first method they hear about or encounter, usually. I really think that's all there is to it. It's the same reason you get people dropping Ifrit groups as soon as they see no PLD, even if the remaining classes could set up a stun rotation. Or quitting when there's no BLM/SMN, even though you can melee LB3 to defeat the nails. People seem inclined to think that the first way that succeeds is the best way, or the only way, to do something, and it leads to a lot of needless frustration. Some people probably still think that you need 5 DPS or 3 healers in order to beat HM Titan, even though it's been done with 7 tanks and 1 healer.

[Phai]

As said before, ACN is superior for giving this DPS a more supporting role. Heal, in-battle-non-trait-dependent raise, and lower incoming damage to entire group via 2 methods (EfaE/virus) which can be rotated with the healers for a lot of uptime.

Bard's role is DPS but they are support focused DPS which people are getting hung up/confused on. They queue as DPS, they attack monsters but their charm and primary use comes in the form of their supporting songs which makes them indeed support. The only issue here is in XIV all support roles come in the form of augmented DPS roles.

Dont they need content to support the argument of support role, before making a support role?

[Auburn]

And what exactly are they doing to make DPS Bard class more supportive? Lowering dps does not make you support. Bard has only 3 supportive skills and only 1 can be used at the same time, thats all.. What about giving us CNJ cross skills while lowering dps. 3 ballads, raise, stoneskin, heal.. yup, that seems pretty supportive to me. ))

You could always drop down to Archer and gain a few extra support abilities (Swiftcast, Stoneskin, Eye for an Eye, Virus) as well as Fracture to keep the DPS around where BRD is currently in exchange for songs that aren't used as much at higher level play. Bard is still great for progression when people aren't yet used to the fight and need a little bit of an edge whether that be additional TP, MP, or some mage damage. However, once you get to a certain level of synergy within your group, songs become fairly useless. That being said, we don't even have to run Ballad during Twintania and we run with WHM and SCH. This turns BRD from a support class into a purely DPS related role. At that point, you would be better off bringing almost any other DPS class as that will likely give your group more damage as a whole even after considering the mage damage bonus from Requiem.

Take into consideration that BRD will likely lose one of it's DPS cooldowns in 2.1 and Archer becomes even more enticing as it shouldn't lose anything due to it being a class. Of course, making this work won't be extremely common as you won't be able to use any BRD specific myth gear you had purchased. Any concerns about the weapon won't likely matter as long as the Extreme Primal i90 bow is usable by both Archer and Bard.

[Allyrion]

But CNJ spells would be even more useless, with the possible exception of Stoneskin.

Cure - We don't have the stats to make this worthwhile. Nothing we can do with it that can't be better done by an actual healer, unless we're somehow saving a wipe.
Aero - Even less useful, as it would be strictly inferior to any of our native moves.
Protect - We literally can't use this if there's a WHM in the party who's used it.
Raise - Can't be used in combat, so any time it could be used in a dungeon it would probably be faster to release and run back.
Stoneskin - An awesome spell, though we'd be relegated to in-combat casting, which would only situationally be worth it.

"If" they did cross class Bard with CNJ, it really wouldn't be hard to imagine them adding a bard trait or something where their spells scaled off their dexterity.
That would still only make Cure, Aero and Stoneskin more useful but it's better than nothing.

Alternatively, BRD cross class skills don't need to be determined by what's available to other classes now. I think Medica would make more sense than Cure.
Medica, Aero and Stoneskin would be a decent package.

[Mikedizzy]

They are going to take away Blood for Blood in some way whether it be getting rid of the Lancer cross-class altogether (don't think that is going to happen becasue we need some of the other skills also) or by making BFB not usable by Bards or ONLY Lancers.
I would like it if they gave us CNJ cross class back and then let us use Medica, etc... that would feel more like some support to me....or how about just make us a few more songs: I would like to see 1. Attack increase buff 2. Haste Buff song 3. Increased movement speed in combat song

[NeonC]

Bard with Medica? What. Why do we need to heal? Why do we even need mages ballad honestly. Well here is to hoping some of my Dex gear ports over to Musketeer.