Summon size have you down? why not have it your way?

[Nofacekiller]

Simplify what the actual caster can do and increase the functionality of the Summon itself dramatically. The pets skills should make up at least half of your total rotation. Why not just build from the FF11 model and make them a hybrid dps/support class? However I would encourage their supporting skills to be damage oriented as summoner is a dps class in the end. So for instance, Garuda could maybe buff allies in a target AOE (something they don't have on most skills in this game for some reason) that has a chance on each auto attack to reduce the global cooldown (or cast time for casters) of the players next 3 abilities by .5 seconds (probably a bit less for casters) and restore a bit of TP/MP.

Since each pet will have their own exclusive buff and their own mini dps rotation (2-3 skills), you can clip off some of the extraneous skills that SMN has. For instance, you can consolidate Bio/Bio 2 and make up for it with the new pet buffs and dps.

[Ardan]

snip

They went this way once and made SMN one of the worst classes in the game. Back before the level cap, SMN was almost never used for damage dealing due to their sloppy, restricted design. Their support abilities were subpar as well with a couple exceptions such as Hastega, Spring Water etc.

Don't fix something that isn't broken. SMN this time is actually useful and the Egi are perfectly fine. Although, Ifrit could honestly use some adjustments to make him more viable.

[Nofacekiller]

They went this way once and made SMN one of the worst classes in the game. Back before the level cap, SMN was almost never used for damage dealing due to their sloppy, restricted design. Their support abilities were subpar as well with a couple exceptions such as Hastega, Spring Water etc.

Don't fix something that isn't broken. SMN this time is actually useful and the Egi are perfectly fine. Although, Ifrit could honestly use some adjustments to make him more viable.

Wait, I never said copy FFXI exactly how it was. You can make SMN more about the pet and it doesn't necessarily mean that they will be any less powerful. FFXI had a great concept but the implementation was extremely poor.

SE took the easy way out and copied WoW instead of trying to make the traditional SMN class viable.

[Kevee]

more about the pet and it doesn't necessarily mean that they will be any less powerful.

Every other MMO ever disagrees

[Spellbinder]

Every other MMO ever disagrees

Masterminds from City of Villians would like to have a word with you.

[Ardan]

SE took the easy way out and copied WoW instead of trying to make the traditional SMN class viable.

You or anyone else can say this a WoW copied class as much as you want. It doesn't change the fact that it works and it works well. If they went the traditional SMN design approach they would suffer the same problems the traditional SMN class had in the past: dead pet means no damage. Is it really so bad that SMN this time around is so different?

[Nofacekiller]

You or anyone else can say this a WoW copied class as much as you want. It doesn't change the fact that it works and it works well. If they went the traditional SMN design approach they would suffer the same problems the traditional SMN class had in the past: dead pet means no damage. Is it really so bad that SMN this time around is so different?

I'm really getting sick of people using past examples of bad implementation as a argument. I already admitted past iterations of SMN (namely FFXI) have been bad.

Why do people around here seem to think that adjustments can't be made?

You can add tools that help the SMN keep their pet alive if you want. You can do anything.

[T0rin]

I'm really getting sick of people using past examples of bad implementation as a argument. I already admitted past iterations of SMN (namely FFXI) have been bad.

Why do people around here seem to think that adjustments can't be made?

You can add tools that help the SMN keep their pet alive if you want. You can do anything.

You are advocating for a complete re-design of the class after launch. That simply won't happen for a wide range of reasons, mainly that people have been playing the existing class and have existing gear tuned to the existing class. You cannot wipe out every summoner's progress in order to replace the class with something else. Not to mention the time and resources necessary for that kind of re-design would destroy the 'new minor version every 3 months' plan they are trying to hold to.

It is simply not feasible.

[Hoshikogi]

You are advocating for a complete re-design of the class after launch. That simply won't happen for a wide range of reasons, mainly that people have been playing the existing class and have existing gear tuned to the existing class. You cannot wipe out every summoner's progress in order to replace the class with something else. Not to mention the time and resources necessary for that kind of re-design would destroy the 'new minor version every 3 months' plan they are trying to hold to.

It is simply not feasible.

Rapid, progressive class/job/profession changes have occurred throughout MMO history; this game and their original (FFXI) is no exception. If the developers feel that their original designs are terribly flawed or too many players find issues with them, change can and usually will occur.

Also gear in this game is very generic; thus, if they do make changes to the class, gear would have little impact and even if it did, SE would make sure to modify at least the job gear to match the necessities of that particular job. Even if you craft your own accessories and meld them, there's a good chance that each piece will contain near maximized Crit/Det/spell speed/accuracy (I craft and meld many HQ-i70 accessories often for myself and friends/LS/FC so I can verify this information).