melee dps buffs + bard nerf = cumulative effect too much?

[Inkmouse]

really makes me wonder where the Dev's are getting their information from for these adjustments. BRD's in coil generally don't out DPS any other DPS class unless that person is playing their class WRONG.

10% Dmg increase on Monks, really? Monks can already sustain 300+ dps on a single target and no GOOD monk, I know of has problems with GL stacks in coil. Again if your having trouble with this, investigate what you can do better. You have Shoulder tackle / Perfect Balance to work around stacks falling off. (primal's? maybe, yah but every class suffers some from the intermittent breaks in those fights some just more then others)

Drg's is the only part of this patch to me that makes sense. Their DPS is currently significantly lower then their counter part with even less utility. Mantra brings help in heavy healing phases (exp. turn 4 enrage). Drg's bring what? 10% piercing dmg increase for bards? To bad Monk's DPS more then makes up for that increase DRG's give to bards.

[Quattrob]

I don't think anywhere does it say that the 10% dmg boost was for Monk... it was only for DRG. Unless I'm reading wrong from the live letter translation thread.

[Atreides]

I don't think anywhere does it say that the 10% dmg boost was for Monk... it was only for DRG. Unless I'm reading wrong from the live letter translation thread.

It didn't say it was for DRG either, it was "melee dps" and from what I gathered both DRG and MNK are Melee jobs.

[Quattrob]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-X-Q-A-Updates

"We’ll be making adjustments to recast times for lancer and dragoon, reducing the time in which movement is locked after jumping, and improving the area where dragoons land after jumping. Overall they will be receiving a 10% DPS boost."

In this thread that's all it says right? Do you have a link to the post where it says "melee dps"?

[Allyrion]

It didn't say it was for DRG either, it was "melee dps" and from what I gathered both DRG and MNK are Melee jobs.

The official translation doesn't include monks.

We’ll be making adjustments to recast times for lancer and dragoon, reducing the time in which movement is locked after jumping, and improving the area where dragoons land after jumping. Overall they will be receiving a 10% DPS boost.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-X-Q-A-Updates


Reinhart's translation did say "melee dps". Both are fairly rough. For monk, we knew GL is getting some kind of increase (could be duration or the buff, vague wording) and increased damage from behind.
If Reinhart's translation was accurate, this may be where monks will get their 10% boost. There's no reason to talk about it as certainty until we have a hard confirmation either way.

[Quattrob]

Ah I see.. thanks for the info Allyrion

[Allyrion]

Ah I see.. we won't know if this is both melee dps or not. But one thing's for sure, drg is getting this so called 10% dps boost if we were to go by both translations. Just unsure if it's just them or if monk is included. Anyhow, we won't know for sure until patch is out.

Yes, but we also know for sure that monks are getting a buff to GL and "damage from behind".

A6:
Monk:
The buff effect of “Greased Lightning” will be increased. In addition, the amount of bonus damage monks will be able to do from behind a target will be increased.

Also under BLM:

While we focused on buffing the melee DPS classes/jobs for this patch, we do not have any plans to buff the black mage job.

So if it's that 10% or something else, we know monks are getting some love next patch. Though I agree it's pointless to speculate too far into it when we have no details to go by.

[Marzapan]

I only play a bard. I've wanted to since EQ1... I like the idea of playing support.
I don't know the "numbers" concerning DPS. I've read we're near the bottom.
Right now I only PUG Coil 1 & 2, that's as far as I've gotten. I'm not in a FC.
All the groups I've been in have 2 Bards silencing the Boss.
This is ONE part of the entire game....
I think if they bump our support AND decrease our DPS, no harm done.

[BrandoH]

There's no cumulative effect. It just means the OP DRG+BRD+BRD+SMN dps combo won't be as relevant.

Coil still craps on melee, that won't change unless they severely alter the fights.

[Kitkat]

It is interesting to read over this topic and see false or misconstrued information. Brd for overall duration DPS is in the lower tier of things, the only thing they heavily excel at beyond all other DD (which the devs even pointed out) was Burst DPS. This could be easily rectified by them making it so BFB and Raging Strikes doesn't stack without removing any of the cross class traits. It would lower our burst DPS but not harm overall DPS.

As for song utilization, I can tell you that in coils, as healers and tanks get better geared the need of ballad drops to the point it isn't relied on heavily. However, it isn't useless either. Same goes for TP song and Foe Requiem (with the plus side that foe doesn't have a -20% dmg trade-off currently) as these will be utilized based on how your group is built in Turn 2, 4, 5. During these periods of use it does impact damage output considerably.

Looking over my last few Turn 4 runs, where as brd I use more songs than any other turn, it becomes very clear that on average Brd is fairly strong due to AOE attacks even while song is up (only dd who surpassed my brd during AOE use was the blm, and by 1.5x the damage total). This is mainly due to my use of Buffs at certain AOE phases which negates the -20% debuff and gives +20% over it along with crit rate increase buffs. However, during single targets, when I kept tp song up to restore melee's tp up a short time longer, you can see a substantially lower total. In my group I do this as a lone brd so I have to focus more on the needs of my party than the potential of my DPS.

However, reverse this need in Turn 2 (where I might need to pop ballad during 2nd half of ADS) and my brd goes from 3rd/4th Ranking DPS up to 2nd ranking DPS. Could I push it a little harder to be top, I'll admit that I probably could since during ADS I'm more focused on Silence/rot passing/timing on BV+Ballad than I am on overall DPS output.

These two instances were brought up to show the difference in a fully utilized brd and an under utilized brd. Over the last 4 weeks of logged fights this is a consistent pattern that shows a very stark contrast of underutilized brd and fully utilized brd. When you look at the proper numbers it is very clear that when a brd doesn't have any need for their songs to be up their damage per action use ratio is very high, especially fully buffed, but when fully utilized the damage down effect of songs is crippling enough to put brd 2nd to last if not last as far as overall DPS is concerned.

Unfortunately, I am required to place a disclaimer in these findings: This is all based on parser information gathered between the 2 known parsers the community uses (both ffxivapp and logrep). Using both shows a great variation in damage totals due to the known issues of the parsers (inaccurate DoT dmg tracking) meaning the numbers can be skewed since a portion of all jobs relies on DoT for a fraction of their damage (or in the case of SMN most).

What I can acknowledge as fact however is this: Without buffs/debuffs brd possibly has the highest base action use damage which is then replaced once mnk gains GLIII/blunt resistance down debuff, who then gains highest action damage per use, followed by drg after factoring potency upgrades and piercing resistance down debuff. This is primarily due to the Traits brd gains causing their action damage to passively be increased, but these traits do not grow in strength when buffs are used (which has been proven through damage calculation formula and testing) since they are only an increase on the base action potency itself.

Concluded results based on presented findings: If it weren't for River of Blood trait and brds access to Crit rate (which can be pushed over 530), even with all cross action buffs we wouldn't hold a candle to other DPS. Having Internal Release can be a godsend, but I've seen procs happen back to back up to 5 times even without it up, and alternatively not even a single proc with it up, meaning it can't be an excessivly strong basis of high damage so much as 2 Attack boost actions are stacked with it. A lot of the too high of burst damage issue could be negated if the two attack boost didn't stack rather than removing Blood For Blood completely from our access list.

This is my findings of what is "wrong" or "broken" with brd as a job. As far as other issues that cause Melee DPS to have problems performing, those are due to mob mechanics rather than the job being too weak. If mechanics don't hinder the melee then their DPS is substantially higher/stronger than the brd can even hope for primarily due to potency upgrades and standard buffs.