Duty Finder Etiquette

[coffeeking]

yup agreed, although it's not really in our nature to behave perfectly so yeh...

[Lady_Venus]

I couldn't agree with you more.

[Zedine]

I think it'd be a good idea to explain which red circles you have a lot less time than it appears to dodge, but most people never figured that out to begin with so they can't explain it. This could be trivial stuff like the first boss in WP, or it can be quite serious loike Desolation used by the last guy in D Hold. "Dodge nasty stuff on ground" is usually sufficient as an explanation, but not when you know there are especially fast casting nasty stuff going on. It'd be unfair to just say 'dodge WotL' without emphasizing that the timing on WotL is extremely unforgiving.

And sometimes the game is at fault. For example this video shows a clear issue. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hg33BjzwLWw
At the 8 second mark he is clearly out of the red and the casting bar still isn't completely filled. yet he still gets hit by the laser.

[Astarica]

And sometimes the game is at fault. For example this video shows a clear issue. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hg33BjzwLWw
At the 8 second mark he is clearly out of the red and the casting bar still isn't completely filled. yet he still gets hit by the laser.

The game's lag is consistent, but it matters more on abilities that have less forgiving timers. You simply have less time to get out of some AEs, regardless of the lag, and it's useful to point out when you're under especially tight constrains. Just saying 'dodge WotL" really glosses over the fact that the timing on WotL pretty much requires you to move the moment it appears on your screen, and even that isn't always enough.

[Zedine]

The game's lag is consistent, but it matters more on abilities that have less forgiving timers. You simply have less time to get out of some AEs, regardless of the lag, and it's useful to point out when you're under especially tight constrains. Just saying 'dodge WotL" really glosses over the fact that the timing on WotL pretty much requires you to move the moment it appears on your screen, and even that isn't always enough.

It actually isn't consistent. Some people have not suffered from things like what I posted on the video. Also in some cases I see on my screen people being hit by multiple things on my screen yet they take no damage since on the server and their screen they were out of the way. And sometimes on my screen I am no longer in the red and casting bar isn't completed and I still get hit. So if me being out of the AOE range while casting isn't complete is no indicator of whether I will get hit or not, then it just adds to player frustration. SE has stated on this and that they are trying to fix it. What I am saying is it seems unfair to take it out on players who suffer this when SE has admitted it to be an issue.

[Bahram]

It's nice when someone comes in and is willing to explain everything and help everyone through. You should appreciate it. It should never be expected. Being nice, open, and honest with people will increase the chances they are willing to do this nice thing for you. Don't be surprised or angry when they do the things they're supposed to and leave after a healthy number of tries. They did nothing wrong.

That's just my opinion. That said, it's a good thing to help explain when it's needed. I routinely do what I can to help people through.

[Astarica]

The lag in this game is very consistent. Once you know enough about it you'll pretty much always know when you will and will not get hit. Not every ability in this game is equally hard to dodge. Take WotL, we'll guess it's about 2s to cast, and looking at people's reaction it takes around 1-1.8s for people to get out of it (1.8s would be a very close call). The lag in this game is roughly around 0.5s. So a person who can get out in 1s will never feel lag, while a person who need 1.8s to get out will always be 'lagged', and someone who gets out at around 1.5s will sometimes be 'lagged'.

Now compared to say Overpower, a common move used by a whole mess of stuff. It looks like it takes about 2s to cast, but it takes less than 1s to avoid it (strafe left or strafe right), which is why you never hear people about lag on Overpower, because even a very slow player can usualy get out in under 1s so the lag cannot possibly be enough to make it hit you.

The problem with the 'lag' issue in general is that people don't realize that the game never appears to be lagged if you're fast enough, and further the said 'lag' only affects abilities that have extremely tight checks and very dire consequences. Most people can't dodge the AE on the first boss in WP but you don't see people crying about that, because getting hit by it is just a minor annoyance. If that AE just instantly killed you, you'd suddenly have a lot of threads complaining about lag in that particular encounter. So, a good leader should be aware when an encounter has a particularly tight check on timing as well as a particularly devastating consequence for failing. D Hold's Desolation is a good example of such an ability. If you're just casually trying to avoid it, you'll almost always 'lag' and then die. You have to treat it like a WotL type ability that must be avoided at all costs but that requires someone recognizing it as such.

[Zedine]

The lag in this game is very consistent. Once you know enough about it you'll pretty much always know when you will and will not get hit. Not every ability in this game is equally hard to dodge. Take WotL, we'll guess it's about 2s to cast, and looking at people's reaction it takes around 1-1.8s for people to get out of it (1.8s would be a very close call). The lag in this game is roughly around 0.5s. So a person who can get out in 1s will never feel lag, while a person who need 1.8s to get out will always be 'lagged', and someone who gets out at around 1.5s will sometimes be 'lagged'.

Now compared to say Overpower, a common move used by a whole mess of stuff. It looks like it takes about 2s to cast, but it takes less than 1s to avoid it (strafe left or strafe right), which is why you never hear people about lag on Overpower, because even a very slow player can usualy get out in under 1s so the lag cannot possibly be enough to make it hit you.

The problem with the 'lag' issue in general is that people don't realize that the game never appears to be lagged if you're fast enough, and further the said 'lag' only affects abilities that have extremely tight checks and very dire consequences. Most people can't dodge the AE on the first boss in WP but you don't see people crying about that, because getting hit by it is just a minor annoyance. If that AE just instantly killed you, you'd suddenly have a lot of threads complaining about lag in that particular encounter. So, a good leader should be aware when an encounter has a particularly tight check on timing as well as a particularly devastating consequence for failing. D Hold's Desolation is a good example of such an ability. If you're just casually trying to avoid it, you'll almost always 'lag' and then die. You have to treat it like a WotL type ability that must be avoided at all costs but that requires someone recognizing it as such.

Again not consistent. Someone having internet lag has in addition the .3 second delay from the server lag, they are two different things. The .3 second server delay is consistent, but internet connections are not. I know this since a good friend of mine plays from Australia, And let me tell you, he cannot dodge unless he is already moving.

I agree for the rest, but the issue at hand here is the Duty Finder, a good leader has a group, on a random Duty Finder the leader should be the Tank as he leads the party, but lets say the tank is new as usually in Duty Finder most people are. What then? Like i stated several times, The issue seem to have is Titan, and I am talking mainly of general cases. Titan is not the end all be all of Duty Finder. Besides that there is no leader. I have had several Groups where they see me in Allagan and Relic +1 and people try and force a speed run with out saying anything. With out warning I have seen healers pulling with Holy and Black Mages pulling with Flare. They don't know if I have Provoke up, or if I have experience with speed runs, they just do it.

The same goes with Titan, people don't know if others know about WotL, they just assume they do. And when they get hit and wipe they leave on 1st wipe. That's what I am trying to say here. The lag issues and everything else is separate. And speaking of WotL it can be avoided but when 4 stack and people don't stack it properly, there is occasions when you have no where to run. regardless of your reaction time/lag you cannot run out of the ven diagram made of 4 WotL. And you cannot know about this with out the experience, and which you cannot get when people leave the duty finder.

[Sunociva]

All these people blaming server lag instead of moving earlier.... sad. If you "Move out of red" and still die, it means you didn't move fast enough, waited till a cast got off, or hesitated. Like so many people say, it's a pattern, and if you know the pattern, then you can anticipate what is coming next and be ready to move. Min Maxing a cast isn't going to do anything if 3 dps die or a healer dies. Stop.Being.Bad.And.Learn.To.Play.

[Mcshiggs]

Hopefully the the patch will help alot of this, with them increasing the character to server updates for things like the Titan. Not help with people surviving, but help those that have trouble see that it is them, and not the mysterious lag that only occurs on the moves you die on, not the ones you dodge. I'm sick of people not getting hit until the heart phase, then suddenly lag kicks in and they die, if you were able to dodge plumes after the first jump, you should be able to for the rest of the fight, if you get mad because you died to bombs because you were "following me," that's your problem, if you are following you are a step behind, and that is why you died. Once the fight picks up people get focused on rotations and procs and what not, and ignore the mechanics.