Yoshi -P and Dev Team are doing a Great Job, WAR will Not Outshine PLD. PLD is Fine

[Yunnie]

snip.

People look at defiance without looking at all the angles. They don't take into account food, and other HP spiking abilities or potions. After the new changes come into affect, being able to time all this with damage mitigation abilities will most likely give wars an advantage during turtle times (like death sentence). They also don't take into account other spells like stoneskin and aquelodium. Spiking their HP right before recieving these spells can greatly increase the potency of their effect. But I was under the assumption people were taking all of this into account.

And the game is still new, as the game progresses, and gear and food options become more potent, this will compound more and more. In all the mmorpg that I have played in the past, it always come down to the tank with the highest HP becomes the most prominent tank- especially after they get "balanced" to have equal "damage mitigation" as their defensive counter-parts

[Naelle]

Please don't White Knight for SE.

The reason this situation even exists is because of their terrible inability to balance Tanks and instead of improving the way self-heals operate (making them a function of damage received), they decided to opt for the lazy way out and increase their mitigation.

Ugh, this entire post is painful to read.

Yes, this post hurt me to read it. terrible inability to balance? Look at scholar and white mage. They are bringing warrior up to match paladin not be better than or be a copy of. Calm your jimmies.

[Skull_Angel]

snip

All of that is being taken into account though; both tanks can do that and the effect is the same.

[Judge_Xero]

All of that is being taken into account though; both tanks can do that and the effect is the same.

Pretty much. As long as their gear always gives the same exact VIT stat (not including jewelry) then they will always be equal. Defiance VS Shield Oath.

War 75,000 = PLD 60,000

[Exstal]

You didnt really read the thread, did you?
We were discussing about PLDs being on par with WARs damage in a DD "stance".
To which i replied that this is often only true in theory, since not many PLDs are using "damage dealing" gear (this means either a griph set or just a secondary set of jewels with attack stats, you dont need to be millionaire to get a DD set: "striking" gear works perfectly).
Then you come and tell me there is no reason for a PLD to wear such gear... kinda proving my point, nope?

The theory assumes both tanks have same gear. Once you decide that you're going to give Warrior DPS acc and Paladin tank acc, of course DPS won't be the same (or even close). Why did you have to even bring that up?

Btw you dont see me on the THM forum you know why? I dont play one.

You completely missed the point I was making.

[AppleGrocer]

People look at defiance without looking at all the angles. They don't take into account food, and other HP spiking abilities or potions. After the new changes come into affect, being able to time all this with damage mitigation abilities will most likely give wars an advantage during turtle times (like death sentence). They also don't take into account other spells like stoneskin and aquelodium. Spiking their HP right before recieving these spells can greatly increase the potency of their effect. But I was under the assumption people were taking all of this into account.

And the game is still new, as the game progresses, and gear and food options become more potent, this will compound more and more. In all the mmorpg that I have played in the past, it always come down to the tank with the highest HP becomes the most prominent tank- especially after they get "balanced" to have equal "damage mitigation" as their defensive counter-parts

A few things:

1. The myth that Stoneskin are more effective on Warriors because they have more HP is just that, a myth. Shields in this game are basically non-refillable additions to your HP bar which include your damage mitigation. So yeah, a Warrior's Stoneskin will be bigger than a Paladin's, but the Paladins will take less damage. If by spiking HP you mean Thrill of Battle, well guess what, you can do the same thing with Sentinel.

2. Food caps are there for a reason. I'm pretty sure Paladins cap out on vitality bonuses from food without any extra help.

3. A tanks HP has nothing to do with how big the shield from Adloquium is.

4. Balancing content around possible future changes is silly. A game should be balanced for the content that exists or is being implemented, not for something that might someday happen and could possibly maybe become a problem.

[Teleniel]

I don't think with these changes that War will outshine Pld. It will be able to be more pro-active with using it's skills.


I do wish that they had instead boosted War's health regen skills by either (or both)
Increased health returned based on total damage taken since you started gaining your wraith stack
-- Bonus pool would reset any time wraith stacks are lost
-- Using a Warrior healing skill would draw from this pool of damage taken increasing its potency by x% of the pool, and reducing the pool by the same amount.
-- combined-item level would determine the maximum size of the draw-pool (and therefore bonus potency of all skills)
-- This would apply to Bloodbath (1% per hit), Storms Path (5%), and Inner Beast (33% of pool)
Adjust health gained through any Warrior abilities to be counted as "bonus" health when gained at your HP cap. This would allow you to over-heal yourself if you use the skill AFTER being healed and provide a stoneskin/aldoq like buffer (that STACKED with both)

I think that either/both of those options would have kept Warrior as a very unique tank from paladin a true-blood tank but one that scaled with content

[Maqaqa]

The theory assumes both tanks have same gear.

So again, you are agreeing with me.

[Leiron]

The HP buff is such an overwhelming advantage (and I do not understand why people cant see this) that I'd wouldn't mind giving WARs even a little advantage just to remove the HP buff. And even so- there are more skills across the board that differentiate the 2 classes.

Its not an overwhelming advantage.
I made this post earlier ina reply towards you.
20% mitigation = 25% more HP

If a WAR does not have it they die.


@Exstal: Ignore Maqaqa, he/she/it is just ignorant, don't waste your time.

[Exstal]

So again, you are agreeing with me.

I'm explaining what theory dictates. You can't say, "tanks have the same auto attack damage (with same gear)". Then in the field give Warrior +1 relic with full DPS acc and give Paladin Ifrit sword with soulbinding accessories.

@Exstal: Ignore Maqaqa, he/she/it is just ignorant, don't waste your time.

It's the principle of making sure that other prospective tanks don't get suckered into his skewed view of the tank issue.