Yoshi -P and Dev Team are doing a Great Job, WAR will Not Outshine PLD. PLD is Fine

[Maqaqa]

Its just my new sig, do you mind?
My PLD friend, the kind of PLD i love to play with, gave me a potion to see how many HP i could possibly get, and i made it my new sig.
It has nothing to do with our argument
Im done with you, because you troll with no style.

[Leiron]

That's probably because I am not trolling.
You aren't either, and back pedaling to make it seem like you were is really just sad.

[Yunnie]

snip.

You obviously do not read my posts then. I'm ok with they buffing warriors. I'd be ok with them fully mirroring war with paladin (with every skill including giving them a shield). If they did this, I would even be ok with them removing the damage penalty on defiance, AND giving them increased healing% making them completelly superior with paladin. All I'm asking is they REMOVE the HP buff to them.

Even if they did this, they would be everything a paladin is, WITH EVEN MORE BENEFIT and I would be ok with it!

[saber_alter]

looking at OP...i agree.


still wouldn't mind a better dps rotation though >.<

[Leiron]

You obviously do not read my posts then. I'm ok with they buffing warriors. I'd be ok with them fully mirroring war with paladin (with every skill including giving them a shield). If they did this, I would even be ok with them removing the damage penalty on defiance, AND giving them increased healing% making them completelly superior with paladin. All I'm asking is they REMOVE the HP buff to them.

Even if they did this, they would be everything a paladin is, WITH EVEN MORE BENEFIT and I would be ok with it!

I am sorry but you are wrong.
The HP buff is a necessity for Warrior's to possess, without it, they will be horribly squishy.

Let us take your idea yes?

Paladin: 1000 health
Warrior: 1000 health


Paladin has shield Oath.
Warrior has 20% healing received.

Damage of 100 is incoming.

Paladin: takes 80 damage due to Shield Oath mitigation
Warrior: takes 100 damage

What happens?
Warrior does on the 10 hit.
Paladin dies on the 13th hit.

This is a HUGE discrepancy, the Warrior dies 25% faster.

Now let us introduce healing into the equation.

Same thing as before, but we'll alter damage incomng

Paladin: 1000 health
WAR: 1000 health

Incoming damage of 200.
Incoming heal of 100.

Paladin takes 160 damage due to Shield Oath and gains 100 health from heals.
WAR gains 120 health from Heals, but takes 200 damage.


It takes 17 rounds to kill a Paladin.
It takes 13 rounds to kill a WAR.
WAR dies 30% faster than a PLD.
That's right, they die MUCH faster than a PLD does WITH heals introduced.

That 25% HP buff is a necessity.
Why?

Shield Oath is equivalent to 25% more health AND 25% more healing.
1/.8 = 1.25 x base health = eHP at the end.

The math shows that without the HP buff, a WAR will be a significantly worse tank than a PLD in Shield Oath.

BUt what about INner beast?
Rampart is 20% as well, and the game handles damage mitigation abilities as multiplier functions and not additive.
Ergo, A Paladin under rampart is equivalent to having about 50% more health iirc.

[Yunnie]

I am sorry but you are wrong.
The HP buff is a necessity for Warrior's to possess, without it, they will be horribly squishy.

Let us take your idea yes?

Paladin: 1000 health
Warrior: 1000 health


Paladin has shield Oath.
Warrior has 20% healing received.
snip.

Lets say we go with my idea:
Paladin has Shield Oath
Reduces damage received by 20%, while lowering damage dealt by 20% and increasing enmity. Cannot be used with Sword Oath.
Effect ends upon reuse.

Warrior has Defiance
Reduces damage received by 20%, (yes an exact copy of shield oath except without damage penalty) with increasing enmity.
ALSO ADDING 20% healing received.

now, warriors no longer have a +HP buff and I'm Happy.
Lets Also give warriors a shield- COOL.

I stated that I want to give warriors EQUAL damage mitigation as well as giving them a shield.

[Leiron]

Warrior has Defiance
Reduces damage received by 20%, (yes an exact copy of shield oath except without damage penalty) with increasing enmity.
ALSO ADDING 20% healing received.

Um...why?
Then you're giving WAR an unnecessary advantage over PLD.
WAR can keep its HP buff without the 20% mitigation
25% more HP + 25% on healing received = 20% mitigation

Its not a problem.

I stated that I want to give warriors EQUAL damage mitigation as well as giving them a shield.

I am not sure if you are serious.
The shield is understandable, but not the change to their Defiance ability.
It's the same as shield oath, just in a different FLAVOR.

[Yunnie]

Um...why?
Then you're giving WAR an unnecessary advantage over PLD.
WAR can keep its HP buff without the 20% mitigation
25% more HP + 25% on healing received = 20% mitigation

Its not a problem.

I am not sure if you are serious.
The shield is understandable, but not the change to their Defiance ability.
It's the same as shield oath, just in a different FLAVOR.

The HP buff is such an overwhelming advantage (and I do not understand why people cant see this) that I'd wouldn't mind giving WARs even a little advantage just to remove the HP buff. And even so- there are more skills across the board that differentiate the 2 classes.

[SwordCoheir]

The HP buff is such an overwhelming advantage (and I do not understand why people cant see this) that I'd wouldn't mind giving WARs even a little advantage just to remove the HP buff. And even so- there are more skills across the board that differentiate the 2 classes.

It's not that big of an advantage, and there is a trade-off between Shield Oath and Defiance. The main reason being is the 20% healing boost increases the amount of hate healers get which may cause problems early into and during drawn out fights.

You might be thinking why I said longer fights, well something else that comes into play is WAR will have to utilize all three WS trees to optimally perform in Defiance, that means in order to maintain a stable threat they might have to stop utilizing SE/SP (assuming the duration is 20 seconds for both) for a moment in order to maintain a hefty threshold over their party which can reduce their overall efficiency and mitigation. This is a theorycrafting of course as none of the changes are implemented yet, but I think Yoshi's team were thinking this a bit further through than most players are.

[Skull_Angel]

The HP buff is such an overwhelming advantage (and I do not understand why people cant see this) that I'd wouldn't mind giving WARs even a little advantage just to remove the HP buff. And even so- there are more skills across the board that differentiate the 2 classes.

Unless I'm completely missing something, the only time WAR's increased HP during defiance is an advantage over PLD's in shield oath is when taking fully unmitigable damage (damage that would completely ignore the -20% damage taken); fights where this kind of damage is present are just bad design on SE's part with the choices they've made for their tank classes (they could/should have added a special case for shield oath, to reduce this type of damage).