Warrior "buff" in 2.1: not what we are expecting?

[Techro]

[Maelwys]

• Enmity increases across the board (really?)
• Mitigation in Vengeance
• Mitigation in Inner Beast
• Debuff/Mitigation on Storm's Path
• Holmgang now a "Hallowed Ground" but better, with a lasso effect
• Permanent convalescence on Defiance, stacks with convalescence > higher than pld's now

The enmity change has long been requested, and is intended to directly counter the extra hate generated by healers when they have to heal a WAR over a PLD.

+ In simple terms:
Shield Oath = Defiance in terms of damage mitigation for the Tank.
PLD -20% damage received = WAR extra Max HP and Healing received.
HOWEVER that extra "healing received" means that for every heal cast on the WAR, the healer will generate more enmity.
This change should help counter that.

+ IB mitigation is basically equal to PLD Shield Blocks over time.
Blocks are more random and physical damage only, but PLDs have extra cooldowns to compensate.

--> This will become the defining difference now between the two Tank classes:
WAR will be good at weathering short spike damage. Basically, a skilled WAR will be better than PLD versus regular heavy hits at short intervals (20-30 seconds)
PLD will be good at weathering prolonged damage, and will be equal to or better than WAR at coping with regular heavy hits at long intervals (30-45 seconds+)

+ Vengence is a pre-emptive Cooldown that can be used before the WAR starts whacking a mob.
It fits nicely between Rampart and Sentinel.

+ Storms Path debuff = PLD RoH debuff.
Hopefully these will stack, which will cement the position of WAR + PLD as the best Tank combo for endgame 8-man parties in much the same way as WHM + SCH.

+ Holmgang has lower duration and places MUCH more hardship on the Healers than Hallowed Ground.
It will not prevent you from taking damage, just from dying. You will still need healed back to full by the time it wears off.

+ The +Healing in Defiance is not additional.
It replaces the +Healing on Wrath stacks and makes Defiance = Shield Oath in terms of the amount of effort it takes healers to patch up each tank after they take damage.

As it stands, WAR will be able to rip hate off PLDs more easily with the Defiance +Enmity changes, that's why WAR have a good Weaponskill combo that doesn't inflict +Enmity, and is why TP costs have been reduced.

[dark494]

...Did people just completely gloss over when I said you can die during hallowed ground, but apparently you can't die during holmgang? Or the fact that you can use 3 holmgangs in the span you could use 1 hallowed ground? We could do with less selective reading...

[Enjin]

I'm confused how 7.5k+ hp is "not so great hp pool..."...../boogle

Also, it still stands that Paladins will likely receive adjustments that brings them down to our level and finally, Yoshida said that Warriors were working as intended alas their need for some minor tweaks, he did however mention that the use of 2 PLD's to trivialize Coil was not intended.

You know you can actually single tank turns 1-4 with a PLD and some teamwork right? There's videos and strats of people doing it. Even with the changes, do you see a WAR doing that?

[Enjin]

...Did people just completely gloss over when I said you can die during hallowed ground, but apparently you can't die during holmgang? Or the fact that you can use 3 holmgangs in the span you could use 1 hallowed ground? We could do with less selective reading...

Yes, but you can't reset stacks through Holmgang, you can with Hallowed Ground. Additionally on Caduceus you'd never be able to catch up on the healing needed after holmgang ends to abuse mechanics like a PLD can. So what if you can't die for 6 seconds if you just get shotted after? PLD can actually get topped off. AFAIK the only think that can kill a PLD in hallowed ground is tornado on Twintania. This would also kill a warrior because the tornadoes don't register as damage.

[Maelwys]

AFAIK the only think that can kill a PLD in hallowed ground is tornado on Twintania.

Technically Failing Titan's Heart Phase can also Kill a PLD in HG, as can taking too much Damage via Cover, since Cover doesn't stack with HG.
Your point still stands though. Holmgang is a very nice emergency button, but it's no HG.

[glen7187]

I don't know if this matters at all but another thing is that PLD has Stoneskin which they can cast on themselves and with Riot Blade you have nearly infinite MP. That helps with the PLD toolset I believe.

[NRhodes]

Warrior would require more skill then paladin to maintain it's tanking ability. Paladin is straight mitigation, and war heals itself. If they keep the warrior concept as it is it'd be just like choosing MRD over GLD all over again. People chose to play both classes not just MRD.

Problem is, WAR's heals are garbage in comparison to up time of skills. Matter of fact, it honestly is trivial to even try to use them in Coil where the tank is going to suffer a 3-4k hit every few seconds without CDs (again playing in the favor of PLD).

[Enjin]

Ah, I did not know that about cover, I've never tried to stack cover and HG. Does the failure on Titan's heart actually result in damage or does everyone just die? If everyone just dies, I don't think Holmgang would save you, regardless of tooltip description (ignoring the part about a dead party). It's been a while since I've even seen that.

I honestly think to much is being read into using holmgang as an emergency button. If they claim that they want to put warriors in the same spot as PLDs to trivialize mechanics, being reduced to 1HP will not allow that, especially on Caduceus. 10 seconds when Caduceus is at 7+ stacks is an eternity.

[Enjin]

I don't know if this matters at all but another thing is that PLD has Stoneskin which they can cast on themselves and with Riot Blade you have nearly infinite MP. That helps with the PLD toolset I believe.

Can you block parry dodge while casting? I know you can get interrupted.