Turn 4 WHM Aggro

[Kaisersoke]

ok. that's fine. no reason to get defensive; that's just where this seemed to be heading. anyway i gave my .02 re: the aggro so i'll take my leave and hope you figure it out

It went that direction with people suggesting to pick up a SCH instead of answering my question and providing a real solution. When you make the issue about the way the the free company runs the raids of course it would seem that way.

[LiadansWhisper]

It went that direction with people suggesting to pick up a SCH instead of answering my question and providing a real solution. When you make the issue about the way the the free company runs the raids of course it would seem that way.

There isn't another solution. You're not doing anything wrong, and the only other option you'd have is to have a SCH (either a co-healer or yourself going SCH) heal the tank instead. That's what people are trying to get through to you. There is no other way to dump your threat other than dying.

[Taika]

We usually use WHM+SCH healing turn 4. Our second tank is sometimes WAR and SCH heals him until the last two waves, when SCH changes to healing MT and WHM handles the OT. Interestingly we tried 2xWHM in one run and had similar enmity issues with healers pulling hate off the WAR OT, but when we changed back to WHM+SCH these problems disappeared. I would suggest trying SCH healing the WAR during first phases as that worked for us, even though I can't really explain why.

[Lionsden]

There have been a number of recent threads on reddit regarding WHM healing aggro during Turn 4, specifically during this phase. In the majority of cases it has been due to the fact the WHM is healing OT with all of the adds, and simply swapping the healing roles with a SCH seems to solve the issue. There way may not be way to solve the aggro issue, due to the current way that WAR threat and WHM threat both work. You may have to wait until 2.1 or swap in a SCH until that time. Of course this doesn't solve your issue so let's see if we can come up with something that might help. So here are a few questions to try and clarify things.

You said you still have threat even when you use Shroud. When do you use shroud during that phase?

Does anyone in your group tank other mobs like the Rook? Is your group a combination of melee and ranged or all ranged?

Right before you transition into this phase, is the WAR topped off, or are you having to heal him with a big heal as the next phase mobs are dropping?

Do you or the other WHM cast Stoneskin on the WAR before the transition drops?

[Hiro_Protagonist]

Ignore the people saying you need to sub SCH or PLD to fix this issue. First of all, this phase is tough for WHM regardless; even when being very careful I can often pull aggro from our PLD. The way to resolve this is to keep the tank alive for the first 5-10 seconds without actually healing him. Here is what I do:

(1) At the end of P1, when there is still 3-4 spiders remaining, I use Eye for an Eye. I haven't tested the effects of casting it before a tank establishes aggro, but I'm pretty sure it would increase your enmity (as just about everything else does). Casting in the previous phase will make sure it doesn't affect you for P2.

(2) When there is 1-2 spiders remaining, cast Stoneskin. For the same reasons as #1, you don't want to cast this at the start of P2. If the spiders hit the tank after stoneskin is up, it wont be enough to remove it. In my group, the tank is usually moving into position at this point while dps is picking them off.

(3) Virus one of the adds; this will do a lot to reduce damage. If you know that one of the adds is going to be staggered or go down within 5-10s, Virus the other one.

(4) Divine Seal + Regen: the absolute best heal (per mana point) you have. It won't offset the massive damage they're taking, but it will buy you time without ripping hate outright. By the time you're casting this it should be about 3-4 seconds into the fight. I cast this while I'm running to my spot on the north end of the arena.

(5) Depending on the tank's gear, you might be able to fit in another stoneskin here before you have to start healing. There's not a good reason not to use swiftcast to make sure you can get it in time; this will generate much less threat than a heal.

IF YOU STEAL AGGRO: do not run away, do NOT shroud immediately. Remember, shroud cuts your enmity in half, but if you're using it too early in you'll still have a fair bit generated. Move to the tank (but outside aoe range of other mob); let it hit you until he takes aggro back and then shroud. If he can't take aggro back before you die then that's on him, but there's no reason he shouldn't be able to do it.

[LiadansWhisper]

@Hiro: Not sure that will work for a Warrior tank. I can generally go a lot longer not healing a PLD than I can a WAR. Even with Eye for an Eye + Stoneskin, they take significantly more damage than a PLD.

[Soulburn32]

i dont play warrior but what i would do to mimic what i do on pld would be

heavy swing one of the spiders before moving into position for the soldier

soon as the solider lands you would pop skull sunder

target over to the knight and hit it with tomahawk

pop 2 flashes and then go into whatever else warriors do to stay alive and generate threat

pop flash between combos if you have 2 blm's


i lose aggro to dps never to healers

oh and what that other guy said was true also, pop eye4eye and stoneskin before the solider/knight comes, lead with regen as your heal

[Hiro_Protagonist]

@Hiro: Not sure that will work for a Warrior tank. I can generally go a lot longer not healing a PLD than I can a WAR. Even with Eye for an Eye + Stoneskin, they take significantly more damage than a PLD.

I have focus-healed a WAR through that phase a number of times and that strat still works for me. I think the fact that stoneskin will be more effective might make it even better on them. You could even try stoneskin spam for the first 10 seconds and see how that does; it will generate far less hate. Maybe tonight when I do T4 I will try PoM + Stoneskin spam and see how it goes.

[DSN]

E4E and Virus help alot on T4, get a rotation going between SMN, BLM, SCH, etc.
I had similar problems where the tank was even told focus the knight ignore the soldier, this works in theory except healers get smashed. A random flash or just smacking the mob occasionally helped a lot. I also save Shroud for this time as they start spinning and beating on tanks / melee as I see threat go high around this time.

[Hiro_Protagonist]

Ignoring the soldier is a good way to get your healer killed. I haven't confirmed this myself, but what I've been told is that the full value of enmity is still transferred through stoneskin, so the tank should not be ignoring the soldier in his rotations.