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  1. #11
    Player
    Eightbit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    116
    Character
    Eightbit Ho
    World
    Malboro
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 50
    I big bit of information is being withheld right now though. We don't exactly know the details behind storm's path. To me that will really show if warrior ends up over powered. Also I think hallowed ground still has a decent advantage over the new holmgang since in holmgang you are still taking damage, you just can't die for 6s. Essentially a healer can ignore a pld when he uses hallowed, but a healer still has to keep an eye on a warrior in holmgang. Another thing is I think PLD has better controlled mitigation, with cool downs that require no wind up, warrior has to wind up and plan ahead for most of their reductions. In short my judgement is still out until I play it.

    Oh yeah PLD is still beats warrior on utility too with access to cnj skills, a silence, and the best stun in game.
    (0)

  2. #12
    Player
    Vmage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    198
    Character
    Mrv Light
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Riyos View Post
    They were better yes, but not much better. The difference between pld and war isn't that big as many think. The war is simply harder to use, and there's a lot of people that use it bad. In good hands a war is strong as a pld.
    a war is strong as a pld.

    ...after 2.1

    you forgot that part.

    also curious where this stigma that warriors are somehow hard to play comes from... what exactly is so hard about doing your SE>BB>BB combo over and over and over and over...

    you don't even have to preempt burst damage as a warrior...you just stand there and do nothing to prevent it, and wait for heals to land after the fact before you dump your wrath.. not sure where this hidden difficulty lies

    although, you will have to be a proactive tank in 2.1, i'd actually agree that it'll be harder to play a warrior properly than a paladin.. but that's after the patch, not before
    (6)

  3. #13
    Player
    Madoka's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Limsa
    Posts
    561
    Character
    Ayukawa Madoka
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 90
    Damage mitigation made it much easier for a healer to make sure a PLD wasn't going to eventually die. WAR getting mitigation too does the same.

    The main issue with WAR's tanking perk (huge HP) was that healers didn't get much of a boost when it came to healing them. Just for easy math lets say an enemy hits you for 1000 damage and your healer heals for 820. Both the attack and heal are on 2.5s cds. For the PLD who can lower the damage they take to 800 flatout every heal will top them off. For the WAR every time you get healed and hit you'd be 180HP lower than before. If you have 6kHp, in about a minute and a half you'd be dead. Now you get to live longer and the only people jumping ship to WAR are people who would overreact about everything anyway. This just makes both tanks more viable for everything, instead of having people drop immediately when they see a little axe icon by their name. Because some assholes do that
    (0)

  4. #14
    Player
    Kitru's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    1,334
    Character
    Kitru Kitera
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Vmage View Post
    you don't even have to preempt burst damage as a warrior...you just stand there and do nothing to prevent it, and wait for heals to land after the fact before you dump your wrath.. not sure where this hidden difficulty lies
    The "hidden difficulty" is in having a CD suite that's so weak compared to the PLD's that it's a joke with self healing that doesn't scale so that it might as well not matter in Coil grade content, not to mention that said burst self healing comes at the explicit expense of the rest of your healing down the line. You can simplify the self healing by just claiming that you heal after taking damage, but it's a *dramatic* oversimplification that ignores so much about the actual practice of it that it's ludicrous to do so.
    (1)

  5. #15
    Player
    Riyos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    133
    Character
    Akio Sakiro
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Kettle View Post
    /
    PLD

    Convalescence +30% heal every 120s for 20s
    Shield of Oath -20% of damage
    Rampart is -20% damage every 90s for 20s
    Sentinel is -40% every 180s for 10s
    Bulwark is +60% block every 180s for 15s
    Hallowed Ground is a true Invulnerability ability - you will stay at 100% HP for the duration
    Shield, so block and higher parry rate

    WAR

    Defiance +20% heal
    Wrath(5 stacks) +10% CHR(so more autoheal)
    Thrill of Battle +20% of HP(and auto heal) every 120s for 20s
    Inner Beast -20% damage every ~22-24(not counting berserk/vengeance and infuriate) seconds for 6 seconds and 100% auto heal.
    Vengence is -30% damage for 15s every 120s.
    Holmgang is a "can't be killed" ability, you can still be damaged to 1HP, it brigns the target to you and blocks it for 6 secs
    Storm's Path 50% auto heal and reduce damage dealt by enemies for a period of time
    Much more damage (and offensive skills)
    Much more HP
    Much more enmity(and better AoE enmity)
    (0)

  6. #16
    Player
    Riyos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    133
    Character
    Akio Sakiro
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Vmage View Post
    also curious where this stigma that warriors are somehow hard to play comes from... what exactly is so hard about doing your SE>BB>BB combo over and over and over and over...
    This is what I was talking about, a lot of people that don't know how to use the war says that it's weak
    (0)

  7. #17
    Player
    symba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    94
    Character
    Qt Symba
    World
    Adamantoise
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 50
    maintain enmity, use what little cooldowns that i have to survive, hope healers are good. warrior skills.
    (2)

  8. #18
    Player
    Vmage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    198
    Character
    Mrv Light
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
    The "hidden difficulty" is in having a CD suite that's so weak compared to the PLD's that it's a joke with self healing that doesn't scale so that it might as well not matter in Coil grade content, not to mention that said burst self healing comes at the explicit expense of the rest of your healing down the line. You can simplify the self healing by just claiming that you heal after taking damage, but it's a *dramatic* oversimplification that ignores so much about the actual practice of it that it's ludicrous to do so.
    their "self healing" is around a 30% average of max HP healed twice a minute (being generous)

    on any meaningful content you're taking more damage than that within a few seconds, not a few minutes

    what you're describing is that it's hard for healers to keep a warrior alive, not that it's hard to play a warrior

    that's been said repeatedly by anyone that knows a thing or two about tanking from day one.
    (2)
    http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/1037683/achievement/detail/747/

  9. #19
    Player
    Krystalynn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    146
    Character
    Krysta Lynn
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 50
    Question, if Warriors tank better than Paladins after this, even slightly, and do better dps than Paladins (by far)... can someone explain the Paladin niche at that point? Other than "well, we ended up with a Paladin".

    I mean if an FC after these changes could playground pick classes into their 8 man team, what would make the team leader go "Paladin" in that situation? Hallowed Ground?
    (0)

  10. #20
    Player
    symba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    94
    Character
    Qt Symba
    World
    Adamantoise
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Krystalynn View Post
    Question, if Warriors tank better than Paladins after this, even slightly, and do better dps than Paladins (by far)... can someone explain the Paladin niche at that point? Other than "well, we ended up with a Paladin".

    I mean if an FC after these changes could playground pick classes into their 8 man team, what would make the team leader go "Paladin" in that situation? Hallowed Ground?
    blind/silence/cover/stoneskin/valor coronet/spammable stun/RoH debuff/more practical invuln/still more than viable for current content.
    (3)

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