Observation on Dodge-Lag

[WhoIsTheGuest]

DISCLAIMER: This thread is not to defend SE or whatever-color-of-knight-you-may-call.
Kinda sad that I have to put such a disclaimer. What has forum become nowdays?

Though I do not suffer lag, I *still* think it's *very* stupid to put EU servers in Canada.
It takes only entry-level of networking knowledge to understand that this idea is totally absurd. Give a 30mins lecture on networking to grandma, and even she can sneer on SE making such a nonsensical decision.
WHICH IS EXACTLY WHY, I don't think it is a decision that is made *by choice*, to assume otherwise is equally absurd as not choosing nearer location if such a choice presents. There may be other constrains that we outsiders simply do not aware of, that somehow makes Canada seems to be the best (or probably even, the *only*) option at that time.
Anyway, I digressed.

There are many threads on lag, I did not read every single one of them, and only skimp through most...simply because I have no concern about this issue, I do not "perceive" it is affecting me. But after seeing so many talk about not being able to dodge the red-color AoE, with GIFs and youtube to prove, I can't help but make this thread to share my observation:

See, I am sure majority of you already notice of this:
1) Monster starts casting a bomb to you, game draws red area.
2) You moved out of the red area.
3) Red area faded.
4) You move back in.
5) Graphically, monster's bomb dropped on you, but you take no damage.
So, many of you already know that, as long as you dodged the red area, the skill animation doesn't really matter at all.
You already know that, the game doesn't based on skill animation to decide if you are hit.
BUT, here's the key-point: you assume the red area is the one which decides if skill hit. You assume that, as long as you are out of the red area WHEN IT FADES, then you are safe.
But no, it's actually the cast bar. Maybe that's why I don't "perceive" lag issue.

I always fight with focus-target set on boss, so that their cast bar is visible at all time. You will notice that:
1) The red area only appears after the casting begins. By the time the red area is entirely visible, the cast bar may already progressed 0.5 second.
2) The red area always faded AFTER the cast bar finished. I never see red area fades at the same time with cast bar.
3) When the cast bar fully charged, if I am out of the red area, I am safe, otherwise I am not. It doesn't matter where I am when the red area fades.

TL;DR:
The red aoe is only an indicator of dimension, it carries no weight on whether you are hit or not. The one that decides if you are hit, is the cast bar.

Anyway, I am merely sharing my observation. This observation may be right, or wrong, I did not further spend time to test it against all doubts.
Given the toxicity of this forum and for a "problem" which I myself have totally no qualm with, spending precious gaming time to make a thread on is already a losing barter, so I am not going to further spend time for any discussion/argument/whatever.
This topic is not about server-lag, ISP-lag, graphic-lag or whatever-lag, bring those elsewhere.
One note though: the next time you think it's server lag, do a shout "Anyone ISN'T lagging right now?", to be sure before complaining, otherwise it doesn't really helps identifying the problem. Without nailing the root of problem, you will never have a real solution. Sometimes, there's simply no single easy solution for some problem, the earlier you realize it, the better for your emotional well-being, as well as for the people around you.

Back to the topic:
Why don't SE make cast-bar overlay for monsters which we are not targeting? Many MMO has it, probably do-able with SE game engine.
Why don't SE make red-area appear and disappear at the same time with cast bar? There may be technical complexities & difficulties.
Why don't SE sync-up Skill Animation + cast bar + red-area? There may be technical complexities & difficulties.
It's stupid not to do so, right? To this I can surely say, YES, it is stupid, but then again the same thing: there may be technical complexities & difficulties.
You see, it's easy to be an armchair critic. It's easy to judge others. Sometimes, we think we know everything and are quick to reprimand others, in-game or out. But not only this doesn't solve anything, it only spread negativity around. Don't be that jerk.

If this thread help just one person to dodge better and thus improving his/her gaming experience (before SE sets everything right), my time is well-spent. At least I didn't go about throwing insults, doom-saying and generally trying to ruin others entertainment.

Have a nice day.

[Garnatian]

Well as it stands Square doesn't have much money to throw about, so I don't blame them as I believe they are the ones fronting the money for the game.

[Nestama]

TL;DR:
The red aoe is only an indicator of dimension, it carries no weight on whether you are hit or not. The one that decides if you are hit, is the cast bar.

And unfortunately, even the cast bar lags: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hg33BjzwLWw (BRD is out of AoE before cast bar is 100%)

[Billie21]

Your observations are not wrong, they are correct, but there is evidence that even based on cast bar, there still is a problem.

[Wildsprite]

while you might be right about the cast bar there is still a latancy issue, for example in Titan(story mode) many of us were getting knocked off even though we were well out of the way within his cast bar for it. so this is definitely an issue and SE needs to fix it before players decide the content isn't fun enough to outweigh the fact that they purposely put a latancy and did not make any of the content for that latancy. E.I. watching several people clearly dodge an attack but still get hit is proof enough of this

[Alcyon_Densetsu]

Dear OP, Why won't you use one of the existing threads? It helps keeping things neat (making sure SE reads us, including you, by not being all over the place; and also not flooding the forum for other players who wish to talk about other subjects).

Here's a "table of contents" I've come up with to organise these discussions. I encourage you to re-post your observation in these threads as more people interested in the issue will read them, and they are regularly bumped up.

Thread: Sorry SE, but endgame won't work if you don't fix something.
(1,601 replies • 133,806 views) → Early feedback

Thread: .3 Second Positional Update Delay (Requesting Dev Response)
(487 replies • 30,795 views) → More specific feedback

Thread: Why the netcode issue exists, and why it cannot be fixed.
(95 replies • 6,889 views) → Technical considerations

Thread: Letter from the Producer LIVE Part X: Will the netcode issue be honestly addressed?
(80 replies • 5,657 views) → Communication considerations

[Ri_ri]

I don't think there's difficulty in syncing things up. Our own skills are synced to the animation, the enemy's should be too. For example, my Fire have to travel until the target to deal damage... if they move out of range during it, it misses.

It looks kinda silly getting hit by the WP's first boss spit move when I'm so far from it. It seems like my fate is sealed as soon as the bar gets to 80% - everything after that is disregarded.

[Alcyon_Densetsu]

It seems like my fate is sealed as soon as the bar gets to 80% - everything after that is disregarded.

Same here. As Sinth explained in his thread, when we see a bar at 80% or so (depending on your latency), in fact on the server things have already happened. It's basically because this game operates on a "server live-state" instead of a "client live-state" like an overwhelming majority (and actually, all the good) MMOG do.

Quoting him: "Basically speaking, everything you see on your screen is a lie. None of it is real-time on your screen (except for maybe turning your camera angle, which is not negotiated by the server)."

[WhoIsTheGuest]

And unfortunately, even the cast bar lags: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hg33BjzwLWw (BRD is out of AoE before cast bar is 100%)

That's clear enough, thanks.
I am on BCoB turn 2 too, must be hard for the bard to time interrupt if this is the case.
Luckily the bard on our team seldom have problem with it.

With all these activities on the forum, developers must be aware of it, but as several other threads point-out, too bad it's not going to be something trivial to change.
Well, I guess at the meanwhile, all the rest of us will just have to be considerate and let those who are suffering to vent off their frustration on forum.

[Alcyon_Densetsu]

I don't think it will take that long for the forums to calm down.

Just wait for paid time to expire and most of those who just can't play properly will have left, probably even before that.