Warrior Abilitiy - Red Mist

[Steeled]

One of the problems they have, is they locked themselves to a silly limit of how many abilties/traits a class has, and how many abilities a job has. It leads to some classes being deprived of things they seem to need, like warrior, and other classes having filler abilities.

Not to mention, most the traits are filler and pretty boring. Enhanced Stat [1,2,3], really?

Yes, to change it, they merely need to add abilities how they see fit.

[Gardes]

Make shield IB be mirror the actual amount healed by IB.

-Warrior at 6000/8000 hp
-Warrior uses IB and heals himself for 1000 hp, gain 1000 hp shield
-Warrior is now at 7000/8000 hp with 1000 hp in reserve

-Warrior at 7700/8000 hp
-Warrior uses IB and wasted it by healing only 300 hp with it, only gain 300 hp shield
-Warrior is now at 8000/8000 hp with 300 hp in reserve

[ExarKun007]

No. It's got to be scaled based on incoming damage, otherwise it further trivializes 4 man content. This is the only way it won't be an issue every new tier of content.

[Tzukuma]

Not really. Say a shield-IB worked on the same exact formula, non-crit, my IBs (without CD's) do about 1100, the most effective time to use it would still be when you expect a big hit. You wouldn't make it part of the rotation because constantly losing wrath would do more against your survivability than for it.

how is this exactly ANY different than playing a paladin? "i know a big hit is going to come, so im gonna press this button before it hits me so i dont take as much damage" thats the paladin play style, a proactive tanking style.

warrior is supposed to be reactive, you react to a big hit by healing yourself, using IB after the attack. Thats how it should be. the solution is to make warrior self-heals scale with incoming damage, so we can heal back what we took, rather than healing back a flat amount based on our dismal damage output.

[Steeled]

Making IB always a benefit to use, rather than "if you time it right" doesn't make warrior "more like paladin", it just makes it "more practical".

[Tzukuma]

Making IB always a benefit to use, rather than "if you time it right" doesn't make warrior "more like paladin", it just makes it "more practical".

you obviously dont understand. PLD = PROACTIVE. WAR = REACTIVE. There. I put it in nice big letters for you. making IB always beneficial to use takes away from the warrior playstyle. Warriors are supposed to keep their wrath stacks up, and use them up for IB to REACT to a big hit. simply adding a shielding mechanic just makes IB part of a rotation, used every time its up so you're always mitigating damage, like a paladin. Warriors are supposed to "time it right" and this suggestion does, in fact, make warriors "more like paladin". it is indeed "more practical", if we wanted to be practical, then everybody would be a paladin.

[Steeled]

Again, if Warrior functioned exactly the same, and IB was shield rather than a heal, it would still be perfectly fine to use it reactively. Other than healers perhaps not seeing that you used it, vs a healing-IB, it still would give you the same amount of health-post action. It just means that if 2 cure IIs hit you at the same time and cap you off, or near it, you get more out of a IB-shield than an IB-heal.

To be honest, you'd probably still want to use it reactively, rather than rotationally, because the loss of wrath stacks counts for something.

[Tzukuma]

Again, if Warrior functioned exactly the same, and IB was shield rather than a heal, it would still be perfectly fine to use it reactively. Other than healers perhaps not seeing that you used it, vs a healing-IB, it still would give you the same amount of health-post action. It just means that if 2 cure IIs hit you at the same time and cap you off, or near it, you get more out of a IB-shield than an IB-heal.

To be honest, you'd probably still want to use it reactively, rather than rotationally, because the loss of wrath stacks counts for something.

I know where you're going with this, and i know where the OP is going with this. it is in fact, a solid idea. many others, including myself, have proposed this shielding mechanic. However, it doesnt solve the problem at hand. i wasnt clear in my last post, and i admit that was kind of silly. The current problem is the fact that Warriors take too much damage for our non-scaling self heals to mitigate. Giving IB a shielding mechanic only solves a very small portion of the problem, which is the over-healing issue. It does not however, solve the big issue, the damage that we take. Warriors take much, much more damage than paladins, they can mitigate much more damage than we could ever even imagine to mitigate with IB. We need IB to scale with incoming damage in order to solve the problem. Im not entirely sure where i was going in my last post, sorry for confusion. Just pointless ranting while i was talking to my guild.

[Steeled]

Have you ever seen scaling really work well? Honest question, because I haven't. The primary example would be wow's death knights, and druids, and both had periods of "please don't invite one" to "why aren't both our tanks [x], heck, let's make the whole raid [x]".

Frankly, I don't want to be rude to SE but I don't think they have the dedication to balance to nail scaling. I'm also not sure, with the latency in combat (not reds n sh*t, but like abilities going off and having no effect--like Benediction and HG) that it could work very well. And then there's the bug of abilities being used and not registering at all, but still going on cooldown (like Bloodbath, very easy to see when it's active).

The combat system has a lot of flaws before they take up something as complex as rolling absorbs, and scaling in the way you're talking about. I don't disagree, I just don't think 14 is ready for it. Maybe when she's older =p

A good inroad to fixing warriors, a start, would be to give them rampart as options, merge storm's path and eye (the combined effect would not be OP), double the effective heal (heals for 100% damage), use the extra ability slot to give them a provoke so that they neither feel like they need paladin's, nor feel the need to constantly switch what they have set, and kick themselves if they should forget.

I'd say give them sentinel too, but I can appreciate the difference in tanking style (proactive vs reactive). While both are reduction cooldowns, it just makes sense to have rampart available. It's not especially potent (whereas, sentinel is).

By the way, by "Time it right", I don't mean waiting to use it after big damage. I mean managing to use it so that the heal is neither wasted nor do the healers waste mp on big cures. A shield, even in sluggish combat models, allows this aspect of warrior to always be maximum efficiency.

[Kitru]

Again, if Warrior functioned exactly the same, and IB was shield rather than a heal, it would still be perfectly fine to use it reactively. Other than healers perhaps not seeing that you used it, vs a healing-IB, it still would give you the same amount of health-post action. It just means that if 2 cure IIs hit you at the same time and cap you off, or near it, you get more out of a IB-shield than an IB-heal.

There's a *really* easy compromise between the "it needs to be used reactively" and "it needs to not get wasted when your healers top you off" camps while also fixing the most often mentioned fundamental balance problem with Inner Beast (improper scaling): have it heal you for 20% of the damage taken over the last 5-7.5 seconds and provide you with an absorb shield equal to the amount you healed yourself for that lasts 20 seconds (assuming that IB needs to be twice as effective as it currently is in 8 man content, Rock Buster>auto-attack>Mountain Buster hits my WAR for about 6k and my IB heals for ~1.2k; 20% of 6k is 1.2k).

You would *still* have to use it reactively to get any value out of it, at least half of it would be useful even if you were topped off while the animation is resolving, and it would cause the effect to actually scale with incoming damage as is needed, not to mention that it would remove IB's reliance upon Berserk and Internal Release to generate appreciable healing numbers. It could even be used rotationally for fights without discrete burst damage phases, though it wouldn't be nearly as potent. As long as the devs also reevalutated the WAR CD suite so that it wasn't completely and utterly abysmal, it would gives WARs a nice niche compared to PLD: WAR would excel at tanking intense bursts arising from 1-2 hits (i.e. Mountain Buster) whereas PLD would be excel at tanking constant high damage phases (i.e. Caduceus).