Tanking, I think we have a problem

[Shados]

Healers cannot generate infinite health. DPS cannot generate infinite damage. Why should tanks be able to keep threat from anything and everything? Managing threat as a damage dealer or healer has been an MMO staple since the time of MUDs. Because WoW and many of its clones did so doesn't mean its the way to go.

Honestly, a deterministic threat system in general is kind of boring and remove immersion IMO, and its a cop-out. All these years of research on AI algorithm, and we have fully deterministic boring encounters that players fully control. Even GW2 had it better, where each boss had different AI for how they did threat (some bosses went after high defense, some after low hp, some against range, some against melee...you had to replay the encounter a bunch to figure it out, and even then there was a few random elements throw in to keep you on your toes).

[Steeled]

The sad thing is that you suggest x5. Even if sarcastic, those are some crazy problems. If something does slip away from a relic tank, it usually inches away, and it's usually one mob in the pack that the blm critted alot on, purely by chance.

Are you marking your primary target? This helps a ton with single target dps. *Most* will attack that target first, and if you switch mark before its dead, they will go to that target next and the ones that don't are clearly just saying they don't care what you're trying to do.

/macroicon "Shield Lob"
/marking attack1 <t>
/ac "Shield Lob" <t>

Managing threat as a damage dealer or healer has been an MMO staple since the time of MUDs.

I will say that that is not the attitude this game has. In this game, if the tank doesn't have hate, the tank did something wrong.

Example: I was offtanking a Garuda HM yesterday, so this wasn't even on me, but the whm was non-stop spamming Medica 2 from the start (yes, in her easy early 10%) and the Warrior MT could not generate enough hate. People jumped on calling him a bad tank, because clearly it was the problem.

[Amyas]

Its not too hard with overzealous dps, just need to tab through targets more if they're going all out aoe, or not focusing target. And you can always just let em tank it and focus on what you can, though it did make me feel like a crappy tank when I had to do that back when I was still using AK gear. It does make it a pain though and you'll be doing nothing but your +enmity combo (though I guess you would anyways on pld) Also, I noticed my problem with holding hate with 'overgeared' people eased off a bit when I started getting myth pieces, so your relic isn't really needed just to hold aggro off relic'd dps, though I'm sure it helps. You can always reroll for warrior and (overpower) too!

[Doo]

In ffxi, most dds can get hate any time they want. The smart ones just know when to do it.

[DivineAyumi]

So whats next?

Healers need 5x more healing potency since tanks cant use their defense cooldown properly.

or DPS needs 5x more health since they cant dodge red zones or bombs in Titan?

[skyzong]

Seems to me like the problem here lies with the OP.

[Reiterpallasch]

In ffxi, most dds can get hate any time they want.

Because in FFXI, the enmity formulas were completely @#$%ed, and had an extremely low cap that most people could reach with a weaponskill or two. Once people were capped, the mob would just spin like a top attacking the last person to hit it.

[Phai]

Only time this is a problem is if tank is new (gear wise) and do AK / WP in duty finder and get overgeard dps... Its always talk about tank's beeing troll's in DF, but iv seen more than once that dps have a main goal to pull agro. Emnety list is like a dps meter or e-peen Viagra to some.

I can undertand the frustration, but once u get geard up it starts to get to easy to hold agro.


Some of u guys in this thread realy have tunnel vision :/

[Steeled]

In ffxi, most dds can get hate any time they want. The smart ones just know when to do it.

Because in FFXI, the enmity formulas were completely @#$%ed, and had an extremely low cap that most people could reach with a weaponskill or two. Once people were capped, the mob would just spin like a top attacking the last person to hit it.

You guys are talking about 2 different points in XI.

The enmity formulas worked fine at 75, but they broke at level cap increased, and the devs just never cared to try to fix it. They did tweak healing's enmity, but they were quite okay with monks, samurais, etc tanking.

In old XI, dd's could get hate, if they were geared, and dumb but they knew how to watch their hate and do the best dps they could. In new XI, yeah, you can enmity cap in a single weaponskill. Tanking hasn't existed in that game in 3 years or more, and if it weren't for supertanking (worked the same as tonberry king's adds. They attack the tank until someone does something to them), noone would have brought paladins to anything, and they didn't bring ninjas.

[Raxion]

Even in my gear, I have a hard time holding hate off of a well-geared BLM that likes to spam Flare.

Having said that, though, I really don't think we need an increase to our enmity generation. The only time I lose hate to a DD is when I'm not playing right, or when a BLM is actually 'trying' to pull hate.