Bard songs, changes are needed! Support orientated

[ProxyTooMuch]

Bard has a LOT of support, that's why SE is considering if they gave it TOO much damage and looking at how to scale it back... and hopefully keep it in the same ballpark as other classes.

Bards don't do more damage than other classes. On Coil Turn 4 you are much better off with a double caster + bard combination than a double bard + caster.

I also think you're mistaking monks for summoners.

[Kurotab0]

I see.. I would like to thank you all for replying to this and helping me get more insight in the usefulness of all songs this helped me a lot although everyone seems to agree on the point that Army's Paeon isn't that useful xD. There is 1 thing that's kinda bothering me though and that's the fact that Foe's Requiem only seems to affect casters leaving the MDPS out which in turn leaves a gap in the great buff (as I understand it from you all) that a Bard gives to casters, sure MDPS got their own buffs but some of these buffs are also cross skills for other jobs and they don't compare to the duration of Foe's Requiem (which can be kept up for as long as you want if you got the mana) or is it just me and do the MDPS get their similar buff from another job?

Please Note: I only have a lvl 50 MNK and BRD (and I haven't been lvl 50 on my BRD for that long) so I don't know if Foe's Requiem affect a DRG in any way so please forgive me for my ignorance if it does .

[Allyrion]

Snip.

Bards buff magic users. Dragoons buff bards and themselves. Monks buff themselves.
Though by buff I mean debuff.

Foe requiem is a debuff to reduce magic resistance on enemies.
Disembowel from the Dragoon reduces piercing resistance on enemies. Bards and dragoons both do piercing damage. (This, I'm sure about)
Dragon Kick from the Monk reduces Blunt resistance. Monk attacks are the only blunt ones (for now!). I guess you know this one since you have a 50 mnk.

So everyone's accounted for. Not sure what the tanks do, not like it matters much.
Dragon Kick and Disembowel can be kept up constantly. Just like requiem.

[Kurotab0]

Hmm that's true, didn't consider it from the debuff point of view was only thinking about 'buffs' >.<' my bad..

By the way Allryion (and every other MNK out there) I got a certain issue with Dragon Kick. If I open with Dragon Kick it doesn't register the debuff, I've always gotta open with Bootshine and work my way through forms to Demolish and then to ToD before I use Dragon Kick since I first need to place other DoTs to be able to register Dragon Kick as a debuff since I won't see it otherwise..

Here is my rotation as a MNK: Bootshine, Twin Snakes, Demolish, ToD, Dragon Kick, Twin Snakes, Snap Punch. Then I use Bootshine, Twin Snakes, Snap Punch and the occasional Steel Peak if it's up until I need to refresh my DoT's. (I know I haven't included buffs like Internal Release but I use those whenever they're up)

Is this the same for you guys or am I doing something wrong because I was/am pretty sure about my rotation.

[Lecreuset]

this is like the 5th time this support role is going around

4 man parties will never make this happen, there is no support role

[NyssaElf]

this is like the 5th time this support role is going around

4 man parties will never make this happen, there is no support role

Just posting to say "this ^" so they make us support, we use df for wp or ak. Oh look we got a bard we can't do it now. Looking for speed runs well sorry you are a brd.
Until brds get there own role to queue into we are dps.
I would like our songs to be buffs, like casting haste, or shell, or attack buff
Drg and mnks also need party buffs as well (besides mantra)

[Kurotab0]

Lecreuset if you'd actually read what I posted you would read that I actually only proposed 2 changes to 2 songs to give it more of a support like feeling, although some people have already gone through the trouble to patiently explaining the actual usefulness in some situations of these songs to me, and if you think about it for a moment you'll come to the conclusion that I wasn't saying "OMG make Bard damage obsolete and nerf their damage and make them only sing songs" and that all I posted were some changes to songs. Because if you think about it, all the damage a Bard does comes from the skills they get from their Archer base class and not from their actual songs.

What I envisioned was what NyssaElf said about some buffs like Haste, Shell or attack buff would've been nice however I never said that the damage that Bards do should just disappear.

[Lecreuset]

Oh I read it, but if you'd actually get to higher tier fights you'd know that you would need to use everything you have and learn to manage your mp.
"Mage's Ballad hasn't had it's time to shine yet in my opinion". Well you've never been to coil on your bard it seems.
Monks/dragoons run out of TP especially in turn 4 and 5 even with invigorate. I use Army's Paeon alot. Foe Requiem is awesome especially if you have more than 1 caster.

There will be no more buffs/utility that bard will provide until more expansions come out. More songs would be nice but they're not going to give anymore things to any classes so they can give it in the next expansions.

[Teleniel]

Bards don't do more damage than other classes. On Coil Turn 4 you are much better off with a double caster + bard combination than a double bard + caster.

I also think you're mistaking monks for summoners.

Summoner does un-aspected damage, so it *should* not get the bonus damage from requiem. Monk has Fists of Fire (punch damage is elemental fire) so they DO get it.

[Viridiana]

By the way Allryion (and every other MNK out there) I got a certain issue with Dragon Kick.

It's my understanding (not being a MNK) that it requires Opo-opo form or Perfect Balance to get the debuff rolling. You don't actually start in Opo-opo, you start with "no form."

Summoner does un-aspected damage, so it *should* not get the bonus damage from requiem. Monk has Fists of Fire (punch damage is elemental fire) so they DO get it.

Testing indicates that SMN *does* get it, and MNK *does not*.