Bard songs, changes are needed! Support orientated

[Sterob]

-20% damage while playing song and still depleting mana

[Teleniel]

Requiem doesn't give you the damage penalty.... so you can be providing a "free" 20% boost too 2 other classes DPS for a short time.
If you're worried about mages MP, *usually* you're not worried about bursting out damage.
If you're worried about melee TP, *usually* -20% from you is better than the team adding 1-2 GCD's between ability chains.

[Lefeauge]

What I can tell from your posts, you are kinda of expecting songs be essential and truly turn the tide of battle. Unfortunately songs do not work like this and are more of an added convenience thing. The utility that they give is good however it is not required. Whether that makes them useless to you or not is your choice.

Battle Voice is the only ability that truly makes you feel like you are turning the tide of battle, with Battle Voice, Ballad with give Healers more MP than they can use, Paeon will give Melee/Tanks more TP than they could use, and Requiem spikes Caster DPS tremendously.

[Lecreuset]

yup songs here don't have as big of an impact as XI but still enough of a difference

[Luso]

If your party is offensive caster heavy, you should always try to run with requiem on. No damage penalty for having it on and in most cases Bard's mp is being unused anyways. Just be careful when running around. The debuff from the song can pull unwanted attention.

[Kurotab0]

That's exactly what I meant Lefeauge and I admit that my expectations may have been too high, I won't deny that the songs do have their uses (I know I've used the wrong words in my descriptions though so don't say I'm contradicting myself :P I'm correcting myself here) it's just that I feel like I'm missing something since the songs of a Bard feel like they should be a pretty big thing but they seem to be lacking the actual impact I was expecting them to have but like you say that's more of a personal thing rather than a real issue it just would have been nice if there was something that like you say could turn the tide of a battle.

[Allyrion]

I think you're greatly under appreciating the songs. Bards are by far the best utility dps in the game and songs are a big part of it.

Mage's Ballad can "turn the tide of battle", because when your progression fights drag on that ballad can mean the difference between a wipe and a kill.

Foe Requiem is even better, it dictates where the tide turns. The damage buff is extremely powerful, and you don't lose 20% damage playing it. That's free damage.
Mage's Ballad can be used to save a party, but Foe Requiem is a constant support otherwise. You should be able to keep doing it and stop to save mana if you know you'll have to help the healer's mana.

You said you only need Mage's Ballad for Titan's heart, right? But then you say you don't play Requiem much cause people always ask for the Ballad.
You should be using Requiem as much as you can. It even buffs your own damage, but it's bigger deal if you have a mage.

Army's Paeon is not as useful, I'll admit. However, no one should ever auto-attack for 20-30s to do normal dps for a few more minutes. That's bad and will probably kill your group in the long run if you're doing coil (or even Titan's phase 5, maybe).
It's not as useful, because it's usually not needed since all TP users have Invigorate. However, when it is needed bard's are the only ones that can and should provide. There are times when this can also turn the tide of battle when you're pushing an enrage in T4 or even just trying to get the kill before you all die.

Of course mistakes like that go away as people know the fights by heart. But that just means bard songs shine in progression fights.
They're a safety net that can help you push through odds that you aren't necessarily ready for otherwise.
If that's not turning the tide of battle, I'm not sure what is.

I don't mind bard's having all the utility it does, while pulling decent dps and being extremely mobile. But you really can't ask them to be any more important.
They're the only required dps in a group already.

[Viridiana]

You should be using Requiem as much as you can. It even buffs your own damage, but it's bigger deal if you have a mage.

Agree with the rest of your post, but I have to point out that Foe's does nothing for our damage. It does, however, affect all caster dps. WHM, BLM, SMN, SCH, all get a boost.

[Allyrion]

Agree with the rest of your post, but I have to point out that Foe's does nothing for our damage. It does, however, affect all caster dps. WHM, BLM, SMN, SCH, all get a boost.

I've heard in multiple places that foe buffs your dots. It's not a huge dps increase, maybe not even significant personally for the bard, but I was pretty sure it does that.
Am I wrong? I'd like to know.

EDIT:
I see it's been proven not to work on bard dots. I retract that statement then.

[Thorauku]

Bard songs are fine as it is, if there will be some changes, I'd say it's the MP consumption of songs, making Bards more support oriented.