Gearing Your Monk in iLvl 90 Gear: A Discussion

[Donjo]

Hello all,

I've recently acquired a nearly full Darklight set for my lovely Monk, and a steadily growing pool of Mythology Tomes has me considering what I should begin spending it on. The question being that, provided that I do manage to adventure in Coil eventually, which slots should have AF2 gear and which slots should have Allagan gear? Their stats really are quite different, after all.

This is keeping in mind the following static requirements on stats:

Accuracy >= the Melee cap for Turn 5. I've heard talk of it being 487 or somewhere above 490, so I'll just round up to 500 here. It feels safe.
Skill Speed = 491. This is the number I've heard tossed around as reducing Global Cooldown during Greased Lightning III to a flat 2 seconds.

As for Crit Rate and Determination, I suppose the goal is to get them as high as possible while sticking close to the Accuracy(definitely) and the Skill Speed goal(possibly).

Now, iLvl 90 gear, no matter your combination, will give a Monk 221 Strength and 176 Vitality. This is a given and cannot be changed. So, my proposed "ideal" stat distribution of gear is to add 159 Accuracy and 150 Skill Speed to a Monk's level 50 base of 341 in both stats.

So, the sets:

Note: All data is provided via xivdb.com.

EDIT: For those who want the raw numbers: I've compiled them into this spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...nc&usp=sharing

AF2: This is the set composed of your Relic+1, The Hero's Accessories via Myth, and the Melee gear via Myth. If you wear all AF2, here is your outcome. Note that there is only one "Hero's" Ring for each class set, so this calculation assumes one empty ring slot.
+208 Strength
+176 Vitality
+169 Accuracy
+52 Crit Rate
+54 Determination
+124 Skill Speed.

This looks good. However, the Accuracy is more than we need and the Skill Speed isn't quite enough.

Allagan: This is the set composed of the Allagan gear of Striking a Monk can obtain through Coil. This includes the Allagan weapon, as well as wearing both a Maiming and Striking ring.
+221 Strength
+176 Vitality
+51 Accuracy
+199 Crit Rate
+79 Determination
+88 Skill Speed

Alternately, all Striking Accessories can be substituted for Maiming Accessories to get the following assortment:
+83 Accuracy
+194 Crit Rate
+83 Determination
+56 Skill Speed

I'm sure the problem with going full Allagan is immediately apparent. Enormous amounts of Crit Rate and Determination mean that your fists will hit like a truck... provided you can actually hit the enemy. The Accuracy provided by this set is pitiful, so much so that going full Allagan is likely a very terrible decision.

Now, going full with either of the sets are the two obvious choices. However, how far can we get by combining things? In the Melee set, the body equipment provides a great deal of that precious Accuracy and Skill Speed. The Accessories proceed to provide even more than is required. However, the combination of Allagan accessories detailed above(All Striking accessories except for one Maiming Ring) focuses well on everything except for accuracy. It's only on the rings.

So, here's what I think would be a good combination of gear for an iLvl 90 Monk:
Melee Head, Body, Hands, Legs, and Feet.
Hero's Belt.
Allagan Earrings, Ring, Bracelet, Choker of Striking.
Allagan Ring of Maiming.

This gives the following stat arrangement for the secondaries.
+158 Accuracy
+63 Crit Rate
+59 Determination
+145 Skill Speed

499 Accuracy is enough. Skill Speed is at 486, but it can't be bumped higher without sacrificing Accuracy. A lowish Crit Rate isn't that important when we have Bootshine, True Strike, and Internal Release, and I'm honestly not sure what a good baseline for high level Determination is. Either way, I'm feeling this combo.

What do you guys think of this?

[Zigkid3]

I actually made a spreadsheet about this today and went over it with an old statistics professor of mine.
I will post it in a couple hours when i get home and edit this post.
The excel function figures out the best allagan/myth piece combination assuming accuracy >= 472, and crit>det>skillspeed.
Of course the function may spit out a different combination based on your character's base accuracy w/o gear (depends on race and affiliation i think) and how much you value the other stats and accuracy cap you want.

I'll go into more detail when i post it up in a couple hours.

[Xell]

500 accuracy is more than safe. It's actually a relatively large mistake that will lead to poor optimization, since that is what this thread is about.

I don't understand the argument of 491 skill speed. The only two reasons for the 2.0 break point are wanting to use more filler skills, i.e. ID and wanting to fit in true strike. ID is an inefficient TP drainer and true strike is an incredibly minor dps increase. You can still use true strike with more than 2.0 skill speed, you just lost 10% dmg for an auto attack+the skill, or something like that. I would so much rather have more crit/det so that I don't get TP starved so easily.

There was a thread earlier with a guy that ran the numbers through a program and came out with the ideal set. I believe it had something like 32(extra) skill speed in it. Here is the thread. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Best-Monk-Set

The excel function figures out the best allagan/myth piece combination assuming accuracy >= 472, and crit>det>skillspeed.

Every number I've seen says det is quite a bit better than crit, point for point. I hope what you mean saying that is having 34 crit on X gear is better than having 18 det on Y gear (made of numbers).

[neoreturn]

Can't agree OP. can't agree other's Best choice either
1. Nobody agree which state is over another.
2. Ideal gear never economy

Here is my philosophy
1. Don't get your acc too low ( below 470) , if you real want to above 490, get food
2. get full i90 gear ASAP

Now the first gear you want to buy from Tome is body piece. Since it only drop from T5. You may need another 3 month to see you can beat t5.
You don't want to wast your Tome on leg piece since it drop too easy from T1. same as hand piece. Any other piece make your own choice by which drop you got first.

Crafted Jewelry is also a good choice, after you melt down 5 stone iii+, they are not losing to these i90 jewelry.

[Thorauku]

2. get full i90 gear ASAP

Nope, you can never get it ASAP as there's a limit for it, relying on farming Allagan is kind of impossible as well, as there's a limit for each turn. The fastest you can get a full i90 is more or less a month or so, depends on your luck with Allagans, which is most likely not optimal to use as well.

[Zigkid3]

Okay here it is:
https://docs.google.com/a/csu.fuller...tLTMtV0E#gid=0 (go to the tab labeled model).
if you just want to view it
https://www.dropbox.com/s/oeecuwfyic...14monkgear.xls
if you would like to download the spreadsheet and make any adjustments of your own

Updates: was missing a neck and wrist piece but added those in. hero's belt of striking and allagan cuirass stats have been adjusted.

This function assumes you want Accuracy >= 472. Taking my base accuracy of 341 and the 37 from the relic+1 weapon, the accuracy i need from equipment is 94 total. Your character might have a different base accuracy depending on race or affiliation like seeker of the moon/sun for example.
so if you downloaded it, you will need to change the minimum accuracy requirement (94) to whatever you need to reach the soft cap, or change the accuracy to a different cap that you believe you may need instead of 472.

As for the weights.
this assumes that crit>determination>skill speed. Xell claims that it should be determination>crit>skill speed. The percent weights i put are arbitrary to note, i just made sure that the solver valued crit>det>skillspeed, but the 57%, 28%, 14% was arbitrary i would like to change these weights in the future if i knew exactly how much a point in each was a change increase in dps then id know what exact weights to give them. but from what ive seen everywhere it should be crit>det. so, if you feel the weights on importance for the other secondary stats should be different, then you can edit the percent weights if you downloaded the sheet.

after editing the weights and the accuracy soft cap to your content you can then re-run the solver. to do this...
1. make sure you have the green box next to total objective selected
2. go to data tab.
3. select solver (it has a question mark icon, if you dont have it you may need to download it).
4. click solve.

As a result you might get a different gear combination. the result of the solver will spit out a 0 or 1 in the blue boxes to tell which gear piece is the best for the overall combination.

in the end, for my 472 accuracy total and maxing crit>det>sp (though you can change the inputs if youd like)
boots: either or, though the function chose allagan cause its the first listed
head: melee circlet
waist: allagan tassets of striking
chest: allagan cuirass of striking
legs: allagan trousers of striking
gloves: allagan gauntlets of striking
bracelets: allagan bracelets of maiming
neck: allagan choker of maiming
earrings: allagan earring of maiming
rings: allagan earing of striking/maiming

pretty much allagan everything, except the head piece (and boots) which would be melee.
if you need a higher accuracy cap than 472, then youll end up using more melee/hero and less allagan.


in all youll have 472 accuracy min, +153 crit, +49 det, +56 skill speed.
applying the weights: 153(.57)+49(.28)+56(.14) = total objective of 109, which is the benchmark for the optimal combination. you can hand pick a gear set and multiply the sum of its stats to the same weights and youll end up with a number to compare to 109.

[Zigkid3]

bumping for my edit

[Zigkid3]

There was a thread earlier with a guy that ran the numbers through a program and came out with the ideal set. I believe it had something like 32(extra) skill speed in it. Here is the thread. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Best-Monk-Set

Just took a look at the thread and noticed that his calculation assumes you are using the allagan weapon from T5 instead of the relic+1 weapon. so that will give a different combination of what is needed for the gear, lets compare below.
--------------------------------------------
If you are using relic+1 which gives 37 accuracy and you have a base of 341, then you need to gain 94 from the equipment so youll want:
boots: either or, though the function chose allagan cause its the first listed
head: melee circlet
waist: allagan tassets of striking
chest: allagan cuirass of striking
legs: allagan trousers of striking
gloves: allagan gauntlets of striking
bracelets: allagan bracelets of maiming
neck: allagan choker of maiming
earrings: allagan earring of maiming
rings: allagan earing of striking/maiming

basically all allagan except the head (and maybe boots).
------------------------------------------


Now, like in the example of Aeoliana's thread which you posted, they are using Allagan Baghnakhs for the weapon which unlike relic+1 does not give accuracy. As such, if you need 472 accuracy then minus 341 base accuracy you will need to gain 131 accuracy from equipment, this means the best combination in this case would be:

boots: either or, though the function chose allagan cause its the first listed
head: melee circlet
waist: hero's belt of striking
chest: allagan cuirass of striking
legs: melee gaskins
gloves: allagan gauntlets of striking
bracelets: allagan bracelets of maiming
neck: allagan choker of maiming
earrings: allagan earings of striking
rings: allagan ring of striking and allagan ring of maiming

this time you have head, waist, legs (and boots if you choose to) as melee/hero, and the rest is allagan. because you need to gain more accuracy now.
In the other thread, Aeoliana just had head and legs for the myth pieces, their only difference between theirs and my combination is they chose the allagan waist instead of the hero's waist that i chose.

in my case the end stats would be:
473 (by gaining 132 acc which is 1 more than the needed 131) accuracy, crit +119, determination +58, skill speed +48. using the weights (.57, .28, .14), the objective total would be 91.
in their case their end stats would be:
457 (by only gaining 116 acc and falls short of the min acc constraint of 131)accuracy, crit +135, determination +63, skill speed +48. using the weights (.57, .28, .14), the objective total would be 101.

If you look at just the objective, then Aeoliana's gear combination would win out because 101>91, however this is only because by selecting the allagan waist piece instead of the Hero's waist piece, 16 accuracy was sacrificed. as such it does not satisfy the constraint that accuracy must be >= 472 because accuracy has not hit the soft cap yet and is only at 457.

also looked at their number sum for their combination on how much they get out of it, and their sum of the ending stats of the gear is completely different.
My excel sheet sums them up depending on what gear is chosen by taking the sumproduct of the chosen gear and their stats, so to find the actual sum of what the gear stats should be i only needed to look at the changes of the waist between the two of us. i don't think they added the sum of the stats correctly.

[Trezoa]

1st, thanks for this.

2nd, Could you please do a det>crit>ss set with this? I don't know how to use this spreadsheet and it says some of -my- files are corrupted and I can't run it.

[Donjo]

500 accuracy is more than safe. It's actually a relatively large mistake that will lead to poor optimization, since that is what this thread is about.

I don't understand the argument of 491 skill speed. The only two reasons for the 2.0 break point are wanting to use more filler skills, i.e. ID and wanting to fit in true strike. ID is an inefficient TP drainer and true strike is an incredibly minor dps increase. You can still use true strike with more than 2.0 skill speed, you just lost 10% dmg for an auto attack+the skill, or something like that. I would so much rather have more crit/det so that I don't get TP starved so easily.

On Accuracy: If 500 is clearly so high as to be stupid, what is the exact undisputed accuracy cap for a Monk to miss absolutely nothing in all of Turns 1 through 5? I've heard far too many numbers now to possibly think that 472 is actually it. In addition, I'd like to reach this cap without needing food. Using food for Accuracy feels like a waste when it can be used to increase damage instead.

On Skill Speed: A high skill speed isn't solely about the "DPS Increase", I think. There are certainly increases in overall DPS through simply attacking more quickly and a safe True Strike never hurts, but the real benefit is an increased ability to build up Greased Lightning and a decreased ability to lose it. At a flat 2 second GCD, you only need to spend half of the buff making sure it stays up. Given that Monks are more about sustained DPS than really hard hits, this feels important.

Every number I've seen says det is quite a bit better than crit, point for point. I hope what you mean saying that is having 34 crit on X gear is better than having 18 det on Y gear (made of numbers).

Okay. Does anyone know what the currently accepted "weights" for each combat stat currently are for a Monk?

And, on Crit Chance: Is it true that Crit Chance is capped? I've heard that after it hits 20%, more points don't matter. Is this true?