Market Wards, enough is enough

[Sorel]

Even if the server is tweaked to make the wards stable, it's a brutal system. As a buyer, it horribly inconvenient to have to search the menus for what you wish to buy, guess based on the price if its NQ or HQ1/3 , hunt down the retainer(s) (especially if you're looking for an HQ) ... and as a seller, its quite annoying to have to run a similar hunt to get a feel for appropriate pricing, and having your prices openly displayed promotes undercutting. Something that should take 5 minutes can take upwards of an hour. Those that defend this system .. I just dont get it.

To be fair, I do not think anyone is defending any of the issues listed above.

[Cairdeas]

Even if the server is tweaked to make the wards stable, it's a brutal system. As a buyer, it horribly inconvenient to have to search the menus for what you wish to buy, guess based on the price if its NQ or HQ1/3 , hunt down the retainer(s) (especially if you're looking for an HQ) ... and as a seller, its quite annoying to have to run a similar hunt to get a feel for appropriate pricing, and having your prices openly displayed promotes undercutting. Something that should take 5 minutes can take upwards of an hour. Those that defend this system .. I just dont get it.

Undercutting will happen in all economies its a natural part of economics. You shouldn't be designing a system to prevent undercutting you should be promoting it. It counters Inflation at a level.

If your just being greedy and upset that you can't sell an item you have been the only maker of for a month because someone came along and can make it all of a sudden and make it cheaper thats not their fault its yours for being greedy.

[Rentahamster]

I'm just gonna leave this here again:

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/featur...os_.php?page=5

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...earch-counter?

*whistles*

[Shika]

I think a good compromise can be made if the following adjustments are made to the current system:

* Allow the search function to show NQ, +1, +2 and +3 items
* Allow retainers to seek for items that a player does not currently own- probably through the item search counter and assigning it to their retainer that way
* Display of price history, e.g. last ten set prices by different retainers for an item and the retainer names
* Possibly simplifying the item search function itself; rather than by each ward possibly just by item categories- food, ingredients, armour >> legs, hands, feet etc and list armour and weapon types in ascending or descending rank order. Maybe still showing something in the heading as to which market ward these types of items should be sold in- or scrap the specific wards and tax players a certain % regardless, especially as some people are petitioning for more ways to “sink gil”
* When marking a retainer, maybe giving some system message to the player as to the retainer name and ward location for the bazaar that you want to look at
* Allow purchase of goods directly from the item search counter into your inventory, or a designated collection point outside like a delivery box
* Have two tabs in the item search window that you can switch between- retainers selling the item and retainers seeking the item
* A separate search for retainers seeking repairs (?)

This way players still utilize the wards to put up their retainers for selling items in their bazaar, seeking repairs, exchanging items etc so not rendering them defunct, and people that want to browse (or “window shop”) can still go through wards and look at all of the goods a retainer may have up for sale.

Players will be able to have access to some form of pricing history and the ability to purchase items from the search counter immediately, rather than having to mark up the retainer, go to the relevant ward and then make the purchase.

[Sorel]

* Have two tabs in the item search window that you can switch between- retainers selling the item and retainers seeking the item

Intriguing ...

I think I may like that idea. I'll have to ruminate on it more, though.

I also like the idea of a "Repair Search Counter" option added to the top level menu. It would have to be based on Disciple Of Hand Class though, not Item. After selecting the DoH class, it would then mark all the Retainers that are seeking repairs appropriate for that class.

[IveraIvalice]

If it doesn't have Blind or Timed Bidding its not an auction house. Its just a searchable market.

when i posted my very long summary of what i think is going on int his thread, i specificaly said that we are talking about an AH as in FFXI type numerous times, specifically because you seem to be the only one thinking that everyone is talking about blind and timed bidding. i havent been reading since the beginning but after all i've read your the only one

[Wynn]

FFXI's AH is blind. You don't know what price people have listed their item for, you just have a very exploitable buyer history list to know what people previously purchased it for. In a round about way, the FFXI AH is also timed at a 7 day max, but I'm not sure if that is what Cairdeas is referring to.

[Amineri]

I'm just gonna leave this here again:

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/featur...os_.php?page=5

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...earch-counter?

Renta, you make a lot of good posts, but quoting an article about the markets written last November doesn't really have much bearing on the market system as it is now.

As to why not buy direct from the search counter? I don't know 100% But I can imagine it would make automated botting programs that snatch everything from the economy and control commodities a heck of a lot easier. To my mind it's a trade of "spend 30 seconds to go to the ward" vs "there are no items and RMT and other botters own all the materials".

[Amineri]

I have a further suggestion, regarding people wanting (no DEMANDING) the convenience of buying things from the item search window. This really seems to be the biggest sticking point for people, and when they cry "give me mai AH!", this is what they really mean. The don't mean a true auction house, with any sort of bidding system. They want to sit in one place and buy stuff without having to move their butt off the couch.

Well, I suggest that we give it to them. (I know I'm not the first to suggest this).

Allow players to purchase items from the item search window -- but make the pay more for the convenience. The current tax rate is 10% when not in the market wards. So, simply add an option to the search window for "delivery" to the players retainer. The delivery charge is 15%, so the buyer pays 15% more then the listed price, and the seller pays tax as is usual based on what ward the retainer is in.

This is roughly in-line with the charge to have a pizza delivered to your home, or the recommended amount to tip in a restaurant (at least where I live).

If a player INSISTS on having the item delivered directly to him, where he is standing? (Well, no MMO I've ever played has done that ... the items have always gone into the mail, and have to be picked up from a mailbox). Well, for that exorbitant feature charge a 100% delivery charge. Yes, the buyer could pay DOUBLE the price to have the item delivered to him in person. Kind of like how much a tow truck charges to come and fix / tow your car if you break down on the side of the road.

Even with these exorbitant fees, I still worry that with all the gil in the economy currently, even these fees wouldn't be enough to keep botters from controlling commodity markets. But, it would put up a barrier to make them less competitive.

[Rizon]

i think its fine that they want to keep and improve retainers
but i have to see anyone answer the one big question
what would actually happen if this game grew to 500,000+ players, at least half using those retainers..... would you just keep adding more and more wards?
an AH UI itself seems to be so much easier for a developer to manipulate than having to deal with market wards from the very start!

What you would have is people having to purchase Mules which would require you to log out of 1 character and on to another in order to have items we want in storage sent to us through some sort of delivery system which we would have to sift through upon our return. Highly inefficient.