Market ideas, and how to fix it.

[Xystic]

#2. Initial Listing fees don't help. It actually hurts the people who are actually complaining about it the most atm. It discourages those who,depend on what few items they have to sell, because they can't afford to re-list. Any undercutting forces them out of the market because they can't afford to re-list without taking loses. Its even worse when casuals undercut one another, the only guy who wins is the one at the bottom, therefore the "X" amount of casuals above him are pretty much boned. There are tons of other MMOs with forums with 100 page long threads discussing the problems with initial listing fees. Without initial listing fees they can atleast compete fairly. The importance of casuals is that they are a majority of the community these days and therefore drive a good portion of the market and game as well. You kill them, you kill the game.

[Kazamoto]

#2. Initial Listing fees don't help. It actually hurts the people who are actually complaining about it the most atm. It discourages those who,depend on what few items they have to sell, because they can't afford to re-list. Any undercutting forces them out of the market because they can't afford to re-list without taking loses. Its even worse when casuals undercut one another, the only guy who wins is the one at the bottom, therefore the "X" amount of casuals above him are pretty much boned. There are tons of other MMOs with forums with 100 page long threads discussing the problems with initial listing fees. Without initial listing fees they can atleast compete fairly. The importance of casuals is that they are a majority of the community these days and therefore drive a good portion of the market and game as well. You kill them, you kill the game.

An initial listing fee, which is the standard of many MMO's reduces undercutting two ways.


First, it prevents people from knee-jerk undercut spirals that are caused by person A selling something, person B posting at a lower price, then person adjusting under that new price, then person B adjusting even lower.

Second, it motivates sellers to price items at realistic levels that more accurately reflect the demand for their wares. If demand were sufficient for their goods, people would be bought out before other sellers could notice the downward trend.

This means a 'casual' could check the price history for his/her items, then see the prices of items currently available, then put his goods up for a price they know would be met within a reasonable amount of time.

As you mention the people being 'boned', this happens because everyone can adjust their prices williy nilly without allowing them to settle.

[Xystic]

There is no realistic value. I don't know where you are getting that from.

If there are 5 people in one market and there are only 2 customers who are going to buy 20 pieces/week:

A- 5 item
B - 6 item
C-100 items
D - 10 items
E -15 items

On the market board and we know that the cutoff price for profit is at say 40 gil.

A - x2 - 100 gil
B - x3 - 90 gil
A - x3 - 88 gil
B - x3 - 80
C - x10 - 77 gil
D - x5 - 56 gil
C - x10 -55 gil
D - x5 - 50 gil
C - x10 - 45 gil
E - x10 - 44 gil
C - x10 - 43 gil
E - x5 - 42 gil
C - x10 - 41 gil
C - x10 - 41 gil

Now C doesn't have to worry at all because he doesn't need to relist, hes making money period and now controls the market. Everyone above him is boned because if they had to relist with a 5% fee, they would be losing gil. We've seen this situation 1 too many times.

[Kazamoto]

There is no realistic value. I don't know where you are getting that from.

If there are 5 people in one market and there are only 2 customers who are going to buy 20 pieces/week:

stuff

On the market board and we know that the cutoff price for profit is at say 40 gil.


stuff

Now C doesn't have to worry at all because he doesn't need to relist, hes making money period and now controls the market. Everyone above him is boned because if they had to relist with a 5% fee, they would be losing gil. We've seen this situation 1 too many times.

A realistic value, is a price at which an items could reasonably be expected to sell at.

Lets look at your example then.

For your example, you state the DEMAND for the item is 2 buyers, at 20 pieces each, per week.

This means demand is 40/week.

You have suggested in this market, there are 5 sellers, with a total SUPPLY of 136 items.

This means that supply is more than triple demand.

As a side note, you said the minimum sales price for a profit in this market is 40g.

Knowing that the market is flooded with items, any price above 40g is unrealistic.

Seller A and B have far over priced their items and deserve to be 'boned'.

Seller C has a large overstock of the item, and can control the market price. He would be better off listing all his items at 40, and try to move his surplus.

Seller D's prices are a little above what the market supports, but should demand spike, his items should sell as well.

Seller E is at a reasonable price point, but lacks the surplus of seller C, so he will likely have to wait him out, or undercut below the profit margin to move his wares.

[Xystic]

Snip

So in your definition your saying that their is a restriction on labor cost. If anything is higher then so much above the cost to make the item, it is considered unrealistic. However, that idea in itself is unrealistic. You are trying to put a set value for labor cost, which cannot be done. The cost of labor is also determined by supply and demand and the seller, therefore you can not have a set number that says this is what is consider realistic. That is a strange idea and concept. Neat but no.

Because your concept can't exist, you can't prevent the casuals from getting locked up by "C" because how do they know what the value for labor is? Versus a non-initial fee, everyone can atleast repost at 40 gil and have a chance to make 1 gil in return. The current system still protects the casuals from being blocked out of the economy while a initial fee system guarantees the death of casuals.

[Orophin]

So you're saying people flooding the market with crafted stuff less than what an NPC would buy it for is realistic?

[Xystic]

So you're saying people flooding the market with crafted stuff less than what an NPC would buy it for is realistic?

And why are you not taking advantage of this? If its less then the value of the NPC vendor price, you can buy it all out and make the profit from it, even if you just vendor it.

So your complaining because you can make some gil or is it that its undercutting your market so badly, your items are worth nothing?

[Zigkid3]

So you're saying people flooding the market with crafted stuff less than what an NPC would buy it for is realistic?

if people sell anything at or even less then what the vendor will give for it on the market board, then they must have a real lack of brain cells.