Are two SMN's in a light party too low dps?

[Griddamus]

Thanks for the feedback.

I seem to hold my own with similarly geared people, but i'm still fairly new to the game (3-4 weeks), and you're right, there are less than half the amount of SMN around compared to when I started.

Glad to hear that it isn't me :P

[Rochetm]

People think SMN and MNK are bad because they dont know what sustained dps means. Up to 50 most dps checks are very small burst phases (mainly burning down a little add here and there) so people get the wrong idea about SMNs.

This is it exactly. People hate my Mnk as well for the exact same reason. "Mnks do no damage"... Truth is Mnk and Smn are the top DPS classes currently. Problem is we don't have burst the other classes have and its hard to see whats going on with dots. In AK burst is not required at all so there is no reason to be against Smn.

[T0rin]

This is it exactly. People hate my Mnk as well for the exact same reason. "Mnks do no damage"... Truth is Mnk and Smn are the top DPS classes currently. Problem is we don't have burst the other classes have and its hard to see whats going on with dots. In AK burst is not required at all so there is no reason to be against Smn.

The main issue with MNK in WP is that they don't do much AoE damage, not that they don't do damage. They are by far the weakest AoE class, but they are the strongest ST class. Sadly though, most of the time spent in WP is killing big groups of trash.

[Rochetm]

The main issue with MNK in WP is that they don't do much AoE damage, not that they don't do damage. They are by far the weakest AoE class, but they are the strongest ST class. Sadly though, most of the time spent in WP is killing big groups of trash.

Mnk aoe is not as bad as people think it is... I can't help that most monks are bad.

[GameGeeks]

The main issue with MNK in WP is that they don't do much AoE damage, not that they don't do damage. They are by far the weakest AoE class, but they are the strongest ST class. Sadly though, most of the time spent in WP is killing big groups of trash.

I never got this. How is it bad aoe if we put all are dots on one target, contagion, and then bane to others and quickly tabbing to other targets for thunder while fester is on cooldown after swiftcasting shadowflare. Outside of fester and ruin on the main target that's a lot of aoe damage being applied. Especially if you use raging strikes. Though that should be saved for bosses.

[Uninstall]

I never got this. How is it bad aoe if we put all are dots on one target, contagion, and then bane to others and quickly tabbing to other targets for thunder while fester is on cooldown after swiftcasting shadowflare. Outside of fester and ruin on the main target that's a lot of aoe damage being applied. Especially if you use raging strikes. Though that should be saved for bosses.

Because the new meta is killing around 8 mobs at once. Summoners definitely do not excel there.

[T0rin]

I never got this. How is it bad aoe if we put all are dots on one target, contagion, and then bane to others and quickly tabbing to other targets for thunder while fester is on cooldown after swiftcasting shadowflare. Outside of fester and ruin on the main target that's a lot of aoe damage being applied. Especially if you use raging strikes. Though that should be saved for bosses.

Right... but I was talking about MNK, not SMN.

Mnk aoe is not as bad as people think it is... I can't help that most monks are bad.

True, I mean, I get it. As an SMN, I get sterotyped this way a lot. "Oh no, a summoner." Then 10 minutes later, "I've never had aggro pulled from me on that!"

I've run a proverbial ton of WPSRs. Occasionally I get in with a monk. (1 in 6 or so runs) I'll admit, I always think to myself "Oh no, a monk." Only one time have I actually been surprised. Most of the time it feels like I'm doing all of the AoE DPS by myself.

Now mind you, this may be the case with SMN too, which is why I get a lot of the discrimination that I do. Maybe it is pretty much the same.

[paradigmfellow]

Right... but I was talking about MNK, not SMN.



True, I mean, I get it. As an SMN, I get sterotyped this way a lot. "Oh no, a summoner." Then 10 minutes later, "I've never had aggro pulled from me on that!"

I've run a proverbial ton of WPSRs. Occasionally I get in with a monk. (1 in 6 or so runs) I'll admit, I always think to myself "Oh no, a monk." Only one time have I actually been surprised. Most of the time it feels like I'm doing all of the AoE DPS by myself.

Now mind you, this may be the case with SMN too, which is why I get a lot of the discrimination that I do. Maybe it is pretty much the same.

One thing I would like to add is that I don't think parcers are 100% correct. I was in a coil group last night (turn 4) and I was told that my dps was the lowest but then I would reply, "why are the soldiers going down faster than the knights" no response from that.

[pandabearcat]

Monk is actually approximately equal to bards in AoE efficiency with Flaming Arrow up (since TP is limiting factor, not kill speed, TP efficiency is more important than flat out AoE DPS for TP classes), with 3 stacks of GL. They beat out bards in <13 target efficiency if the bard doesn't have FA up.

Of course, Bards bring infinitely more to the table than Monks, which is the real problem.

Also: if you do a smart double bane with SMN, its not that far off from BLM. Aka, bane 1 side, then bane the other, to minimize overlap (and to actually use bane's tiny range to your advantage).

That being said, bane needs a shorter CD, maybe something like 5 seconds.

[PessimiStick]

I never got this. How is it bad aoe if we put all are dots on one target, contagion, and then bane to others and quickly tabbing to other targets for thunder while fester is on cooldown after swiftcasting shadowflare. Outside of fester and ruin on the main target that's a lot of aoe damage being applied. Especially if you use raging strikes. Though that should be saved for bosses.

Mainly because you can't actually put your DoTs on all the targets. If Bane didn't have a target limit, SMN would be way better for WP.