White Mage: You should DPS and here's why.

[SeraviEdalborez]

It's funny that you label a good healer as someone that is open to DPS. However most of you all are neglecting the fact that the only time a healer has to dps is when the following scenarios are met.
1) The tank and you both outgear the instance.
2) The instance is speed runable
3) Your in a pre-made group and your buddies know what you are doing
4) That you don't completely overgear the tank and take on massive aggro from Divine seal + regen + spamming holy during the AOE sessions within WP.

1) Nope. Dungeons all the way to 50 are healer DPS-able. For pre-Brayflox it's practically effortless, post-Brayflox it's merely more challenging and dependent on how well the rest of your party is doing.
2) Nope. See above.
3) Nope. I do it in DF parties all the time. Comes with experience and knowing your limits. You take the first couple pulls to see how well your tank takes hits then factor that in. The second they start dipping, you stop and heal, then resume when safe.
4) *shrug*

[Vyserion]

Wow, this thread has some of the most arrogant children I've ever seen here.

Wow, this thread has some of the most arrogant children I've ever seen here.

This is a silly debate. Can you DPS every dungeon while healing it? Yes (and yes, it shaves time off your run, which is not always important or relevant to some people.) Is it necessary? Does it make you a better player? Probably not. For the majority of content where you have to be "skilled" (Titan HM and beyond) you're chain-healing and conserving mana/threat. The ability to stance dance is nice, but so far is not vital for any content in the game, it just gives you something else to do while you're healing.

Any tank that gets mad at a healer for either DPSing while healing or not dpsing while healing is retarded, provided the run is going smoothly with the healer's preferred playstyle. Period. I would say, for WHM's, dpsing while doing speed runs is quite nice because Holy is an amazing spell, but it by no means is a requirement nor should it be turned into a judgment of whether or not you're a good player.

For running dungeons, someone did point out that Regen + Healing + DPSing is more efficient than just using Cure and Stoneskin. This is true. However, few minutes shaved off of a speedrun probably won't be relevant to players who prefer to just-heal anyway, so the argument is really a moot point itself. The mentality that the fastest, most efficient way to play is the only relevant measure of skill is absurd. Put your epeen away, no one cares how big it is.

[Naylia]

Couple of Points to Add to Original Post

- Don't forget Virus - Great Debuff
- Don't forget Stone I - Heavy can situationally be useful
- Don't forget to manage your enmity (this goes to every single class) - If you are over geared vs your tank - It's not the tanks job to generate more hate - It's your job to manage your hate so that you don't wipe the group.
- Make Target of Target macros to use in parties using <tt> - this lets you DPS without even moving your targeting off the tank - when your tank is topped up you can then DPS from a safe distance without re-targeting - if your tank gets smacked just interrupt yourself and start casting Cure II.

[YuriRamona]

It's sad how a helpful PSA turned into pages of bile and hatred being spewed.

Keep on being classy, ye overgeared people who have forgotten you once were noobs.

As other posters have said, being overgeared is not necessary to being able to DPS. See Seravi's post above. Duty Finder dungeons don't even allow you to be overgeared due to level sync, and yet you can still use many of the same tactics (including healer DPS).

Why is this thread still alive?

You should DPS in any content that is trivial enough.

There is no discussion to be had.

And I don't know why posters should as yourself feel that this argument is sufficient enough to end this discussion. Obviously if content is trivial you can do whatever the hell you want.

The point of this thread is how to maximize your abilities and the effectiveness of the party to make even challenging content more and more trivial. And one of the tools of this is healers' damage abilities.

Wow, this thread has some of the most arrogant children I've ever seen here.

Wow, this thread has some of the most arrogant children I've ever seen here.

This is a silly debate. Can you DPS every dungeon while healing it? Yes (and yes, it shaves time off your run, which is not always important or relevant to some people.) Is it necessary? Does it make you a better player? Probably not. For the majority of content where you have to be "skilled" (Titan HM and beyond) you're chain-healing and conserving mana/threat. The ability to stance dance is nice, but so far is not vital for any content in the game, it just gives you something else to do while you're healing.

Any tank that gets mad at a healer for either DPSing while healing or not dpsing while healing is retarded, provided the run is going smoothly with the healer's preferred playstyle. Period. I would say, for WHM's, dpsing while doing speed runs is quite nice because Holy is an amazing spell, but it by no means is a requirement nor should it be turned into a judgment of whether or not you're a good player.

For running dungeons, someone did point out that Regen + Healing + DPSing is more efficient than just using Cure and Stoneskin. This is true. However, few minutes shaved off of a speedrun probably won't be relevant to players who prefer to just-heal anyway, so the argument is really a moot point itself. The mentality that the fastest, most efficient way to play is the only relevant measure of skill is absurd. Put your epeen away, no one cares how big it is.

Of course it makes you a better player. There is one singular objective to every dungeon: completing the dungeon. Anything that makes this faster is, by definition, better. Everything that a player does to that end makes them a better player. This is absolutely black and white. Yes, I agree, it's not necessary to completion. It is not vital. But, nevertheless, yes, using all the tools in your toolbox to quicken that makes you a better player. This toolbox most definitely includes DPS.

[Exceptions are any non-consensual or disruptive tactics. Again, any strategy must make the overall time better. If a DPS healer stresses out the tank, causes mistakes, or forces the party to hold back, that is obviously not better.]

If you prefer to heal, you have that right. A player and a party have the right to play this game in any way that they prefer, and to measure themselves on any metric. Playing for fun? Playing with friends? Playing... just for the joy of playing? Go for it! This is your money and your time.

The line is drawn when healers insist on sticking to their style and yet want to be placed on equal status with players who open their style to DPS abilities. No, you are not equal. No, you are not as good, or worthy of being in a particular party. Yes, the healer that is open to DPS is better. However, no, being DPS does not make you a better player/healer automatically. Obviously, the priority is on mastering your niche role (healing and support) in the party before exploring other roles (DPS).

People are pointing to events like Coil as examples of where DPS is not a viable tactic. Of course it is not a viable tactic, because every single player is vastly undergeared the minimum recommended set-up for an ilvl90 duty. Give it a few weeks (or days) for teams to start examining min/max and for healers to be clicking on Cleric Stance for phases of boss fights and tag-teaming with the second healer.

[Masta]

clearly, everyone has opinions and frankly opinions are cheap, this whole thread gets summed up as thank you for your advice! (as I continue to do me and disregard 90% of this thread). Bad healer great healer, doesn't matter, fact remains...I'm here to kill internet dragons, and I do just that. Peace!

[YanDere]

If the healer heals, he's doing his job. As long as no one dies and everyone is full HP, the healer can do what the hell he wants.
if I don't have to heal, I usually just sit and watch. It's useless to DPS as healer, you have DPSs for that.
When you have a DPS rush, like in Titan's p4, well then you can let a healer DPS if the other(s) can manage to heal alone, but against bosses like Caduceus, why should I DPS? To save 3 minutes? OMG, 3 minutes! I spent months and years FATE grinding and AK/WP speedrunning, but hey, 3 minutes!
No. I don't give a shit about 3 minutes less, I just want to beat the boss safely, just healing.
I often enter Sastasha, Tam-Tara or Copperbell (because I still didn't drop the Acolyte's Robe that I love), but I almost never DPS.
When I see that I have nothing to do and I don't risk to get aggroed, then I cast Aero and Aero II once on the boss, but still not switching ON-OFF Cleric Stance.

[Brises]

It's sad how a helpful PSA turned into pages of bile and hatred being spewed.

Keep on being classy, ye overgeared people who have forgotten you once were noobs.

Nothing wrong with the OPs suggestions, but when verbiage is used like whm "should" dps, or "If you don't dps you aren't doing your job right" and other such comments, that's really nobodies business and uncalled for. As I have said, whether the healer should DD or not should be determined by the party. One thing I rarely see happen in a pug group, is people discussing strats at the start. Usually everyone just starts off, then people will get upset when things don't happen the way they should.

Also, not to turn this into a PS3 vs PC debate, but PS3 hotbars only have 16 keys. You can make 8 different hotbars, but scrolling between hot bars during battle will not save time and the person can become confused.

[Tanaya]

Nothing wrong with the OPs suggestions, but when verbiage is used like whm "should" dps...

Generally, my thread was never about calling out bad healers, or advocating speedruns. It was about raising awareness that White Mage has the potential to contribute a lot to a party. Unfortunately I used the word "Should", and everyone flipped their shit.

I personally find it very unfortunate that this thread has blown up in such a way.

[Krisstina]

I personally find it very unfortunate that this thread has blown up in such a way.

Those kids always looking for excuse to blame others, and u have just given what they needed..

[SeraviEdalborez]

*stuff*

This should be required reading for all future replies

Edit: Below is a perfect example that didn't read.