Order of the Blue Garter Twintania Down (No Exploits)

[Laryndra]

Edit: Done wasting responses on players that are obvious trolls and someone that hasn't even Cleared Turn 4 or seen Twintania at all.
Edit: Immobilized means exactly what Gamemako said, boss AI is bugged. That's what SE said about immobilization.

Disagreeing with you = Trolling? lol..
Also, My drg is wearing a helm and ring from Turn 4. Not sure if that was directed at me but I'd hope not since I cleared T1-4 on the first week i started raiding, and have been since. Lol
Also - AI is acting as it does in every other instance in the game. It attacks players with the highest threat. It's still using conflag and fireball and it is NOT just sitting there. Using a bosses mechanic against itself is not an exploit.

[Kyne_Lyons]

Square Enix did fix Twintania from becoming completely inactive when the Main Tank steps into Conflagrations. Writing this behavior into the boss took an entire week to guarantee it functioned correctly because it's contrary to how the rest of the battle system is currently designed, which is why stuff like Hydra/Chimera exploits have worked on other bosses in the past. She uses her abilities as normal and continues to auto-attack, however the tank is immune to any damage from outside sources while this is happening which is the explanation BG has used to justify using the mechanic thusly (think Hallowed Ground on a 30ish second cooldown). This is where the current confusion is. BG has gone on record stating that if it wasn't an intended mechanic, it'd have been fixed by now since it was intrinsically linked to the original exploit. The fact that the strategy, intently having the tank move into Conflagration, is exactly how the fight was exploited before is why some players are tossing the red flag onto the field, and that brings up to where we are currently.

Just to clear up any confusion.

[EikoCeuracanth]

snip

Just like SE has fixed the sleep bug right? I personally thing BG deserves their kill, but some of their mechanics are borderline creative use of game mechanics/exploitation.

All Twintania does is highlight the fact that SE needs to take a more active roll in testing their raid content, watching the top guild and fixing bugs in the same manner the WoW dev team fixes bugs, and being less cryptic on what is actually a bug.

[Kyne_Lyons]

Just like SE has fixed the sleep bug right?

Huh? I think there's some confusion here. I never meant to suggest that this fight is bug-free. I was just saying that they fixed the one specific behavior that was causing the boss to become completely inactive, which was the root of the original exploit since some confusion cropped up in the last page as to why people think running the tank into the Conflagration is a questionable maneuver. On a personal level, we're of the same mind regarding the rest of it.

[EikoCeuracanth]

BG has gone on record stating that if it wasn't an intended mechanic, it'd have been fixed by now since it was intrinsically linked to the original exploit.

I was referring to this in particular. Also the immobilization bug was due to tanks d/cing mid pull and leaving twintania not doing anything from what I know of (this is what I was talking about when I said something about the cryptic bug fixes).

[Kyne_Lyons]

Oh that, yeah we're in agreement. I don't personally think that logic follows either. "It isn't broken until it's fixed" or something thereabouts and I'm not defending it either. I'm just repeating what I've seen them say on other forums for the sake of posterity.

[EikoCeuracanth]

Oh that, yeah I don't personally think that logic follows either. "It isn't broken until it's fixed" or something thereabouts. I'm just repeating what I've seen them see on other forums for the sake of posterity.

Oh, I agree completely. The issue comes down to SE not showing themselves as active in fight design. They know how their fight is supposed to work, so why not address what is an exploit even if they don't know how to fix it yet? That way we don't run into these issues such as well it hasn't been fixed yet, therefore it must not be a bug.


Edit: This is one of the ways Blizzard out shines every other MMO raid content wise due to going above and beyond to fix issues with their encounters, while players are pulling them. Sinestra comes to mind from last expansion with DKs Dark Simulacrom (or w/e the ability is called).

[ShadowCadja]

bunch of bullshit stuff.

Twintania exploit had NOTHING to do with conflagrations at all, never did, no idea where you are pulling that idea from.
There were 2 ways to get Twintania to not move at all or use any attacks except for auto attacks at melee range, tank dc'ing and someone getting raised as the fight was resetting. THOSE are what SE fix and the exploits people using, there was never any exploit caused by conflagrations that made twintania stand there doing nothing.

[Kyne_Lyons]

Twintania exploit had NOTHING to do with conflagrations at all, never did, no idea where you are pulling that idea from.
There were 2 ways to get Twintania to not move at all or use any attacks except for auto attacks at melee range, tank dc'ing and someone getting raised as the fight was resetting. THOSE are what SE fix and the exploits people using, there was never any exploit caused by conflagrations that made twintania stand there doing nothing.

I'm going off the information I was given from a friend about the exploits since I wasn't in Turn 5 at the time, so I'm completely willing to admit that I could have been given bad information regarding past exploits (at least the part about disconnects passes muster?)

I guess I should be more clear with my intentions in this thread. I'm trying to understand exactly what Twintania means for the future of raid design in this game, and right now there's a lot of grey area around some of the things showcased in the BG kill video. It'd be way too presumptive to just say "This is clearly right" or "This is clearly wrong" because Square Enix hasn't really been concrete with their own definitions of that to begin with. Being the first end-game encounter to really roadblock the hardcore community the actions here are going to set the tone for most of this game's lifespan since the hardcore community of MMOs are generally the one group of players that are mandated to look into the crystal ball when it comes to developer intention regarding encounter designs.

What I've been attempting to do so far is piece together a coherent summation of both BGs public responses, and the current concerns some of the community currently has based on the conversation's evolution to try to at least keep the conversation from nose-diving too far into personal attacks and trite comments. If I was partly wrong about how Twintania was exploited previously was performed then I apologize. At the same time, it only underlines the necessity for Square Enix to make good on their promise for an official response about using these kinds of mechanics (re: Sleeping Conflagrations). BG's kill and video couldn't have come at a better time because it means we get some developer insight concerning these mechanics as well.

[Himari]

They should fix the Conflag-Sleep Bug already, it's getting laughable to just oneshot the conflag.. My static is trying to do it "the legit way" too but I'm getting mad just thinking about people abusing the conflags and getting past this phase LOL it shouldn't be that easy