SCH DPS > SMN DPS?

[Yoohre_WildRiver]

im curious , why do you guys factor energy drain only on sch rotation and not on smn rotation

i usually put all dots on target (bio,bio II,Miasma,Miasma II,Thunder), then pop a fester, then right after i pop an energy drain. now i got some DL accesories, an HQ 4 melded(+12 crit + 4 determination) i55 book and fester +energy drain combo hit around 1k. if i get greedy and i double energy drain and lest say all crit, i could hit for 1.4k.

am i doing it wrong? should i not use energy drain as SMN?

[Ardan]

I usually use energy drain only when I'm desperately low on mp. It just doesn't do enough damage to be worthwhile using. Why waste aetherflow charges on energy drain over fester?

[pandabearcat]

im curious , why do you guys factor energy drain only on sch rotation and not on smn rotation

i usually put all dots on target (bio,bio II,Miasma,Miasma II,Thunder), then pop a fester, then right after i pop an energy drain. now i got some DL accesories, an HQ 4 melded(+12 crit + 4 determination) i55 book and fester +energy drain combo hit around 1k. if i get greedy and i double energy drain and lest say all crit, i could hit for 1.4k.

am i doing it wrong? should i not use energy drain as SMN?

Energy drain just does less damage than fester. Fester is 300 potency, energy drain is 150.

Now, if you were running out of mp, it is a -marginal- increase (well, potentially more than marginal) to use energy drain instead.

Each energy drain is ~240 or so mp.

At worst, it will let you pump out ~3-4 ruins, which is more potency than the difference between fester and energy drain.

Since you should have a bard in your group (again, so much utility for casters, and the fact they ignored thunder when they mathed out summoner mana use), you shouldn't need to use energy drain.

Do NOT use energy drain if you are not running out of mana.

Back to talking about cleric stance:

Anyway selene's aura seems to reduce my cast times by around maybe .3 seconds? I think? I can't really remember.

Lets round that up to selene's bonus is 0.5 second cast time decrease (its lower than that, iirc).

In 3 minutes, you spend ~40 GCDs on DoT upkeep. With selene, thats 80 seconds spent, as opposed to ~100 seconds spent. However, its only up half the time, so lets split the difference and say half the DoTs are hasted, half not. So thats 90 seconds spent.

You now have 90 seconds to ruin. "normal" ruin would take you 36 ruins, but since we're half hasted, its 40.5, over the ~32 ruins baseline (w/o any hasting).

So you gain 8.5 ruins. However, you lose ~6 GCDs due to losing Garuda's contagion. So you only gain 2.5 ruins.

That's a total of about 200 potency, over 3 minutes.

Garuda pumps out close to 5544 potency over 3 minutes, not counting contagion.

Now, lets assume that you have exactly the same stats (you'll have lower) and that cleric stance is a pure 10% dps increase, since based on your thing its basically that if we take into consideration fester vs aero.

First of all you lose RS. RS is ~3% damage contribution. So your bonus is now 7%.

Summoners do a personal potency total of ~16709 over 3 minutes. Your 7% potency bonus is now ~1170 potency.

So your total potency bonus is 1370. Garuda is 5544.

You lose a personal potency of ~4174 over 3 minutes, or 23pps or close to 20% dps loss.

Lets assume, that we have perfect caster dps, pure hardcasting, so receives full effect of selene's buff whenever its up.

Lets also assume this caster does the same total potency as our baseline summoner, because that way everyone does the same damage.

This caster does 22253 potency over 3 minutes, aka over 72 GCDs, and ~309 potency per GCD

With haste up half the time, he instead has 81 GCDs. He now gains ~2781 potency.

So in this perfect scenario, scholar would be more group dps if you have 3 casters in your team, and the other casters are all BLMs.

I want to have you realize how unrealistic this "upper bound" is, and even if so you would have to have close to an all BLM party for it to be beneficial.

If they were all summoners you would have to have about 6 other Summoners in your party to break even, obviously not going to happen.

It is "viable" I suppose, but pretty awkward in practice I would assume.

[Yoohre_WildRiver]

oh also Enhanced Pet Actions.. thoes that work with SCH? since the description says on damage. making SMN have the change to cast faster and doing more dps?

[Troggy]

ITT: Lots of people who have no clue what the fuck they are talking about.

[Nexfilius]

The damage from the actual character itself is pretty similar. Where the Summoner pulls ahead in a clear and obvious way is with the consideration of pet damage. Summoners pets can do a nice job of supplementing the summoner's damage. Scholar's pets allow the summoner to spend more time with their foot on the pedal.

While leveling I would often pop into Cleric Stance and drop some supporting DoTs or Ruin onto a few targets & see slightly larger numbers rolling off as compared to the base Summoner itself, but there's no way I would keep up with the Summoner+Pet combination. Mind Stacking + Cleric stance is nothing to sneeze at, but a Scholar is not a true DPS. It's a very solid hybrid that can perform quite well in several areas, though not necessarily the best in any one area.

[AylaYukihana]

It is "viable" I suppose, but pretty awkward in practice I would assume.

Selene buffs casters half the time, but it also buffs melee/bards the other half the time. It also spot heals awesome. Would have less strain on the healers, which in turn allow them to pop into cleric stance and blast off a few dots more often. These are all things which adds to the complexity in grp play.

While your maths is fair, SCH in dps mode do about 20% less dps than SMN (its not much as people thought!), these grp benefits could well exceed the personal loss in dps.

[pandabearcat]

The skill speed buff is currently bugged and does almost nothing.

At least when I last tested.

Again, it is viable, but awkward as you will need to be able to coordinate with burn phases with selene.

Once you can get pet macros working I can imagine it being much better in that you can force heal with mouseovers w/o losing your primary target.

The biggest "bonus" i think that sch dps will get over smn is energy drain instead of fester, and the absolutely massive mana pools (at least 30% higher than SMN).

Which allow you to multidot with impunity.

The fact that smn gets no DoT damage bonus is retarded, and the current way they have jobs vs classes set up is not going to last, I'm betting.

Because this is the only split class available atm, and the damage numbers should be NOWHERE near each other, and yet they are.

[Troggy]

Are all of these scholars forgetting that you need accuracy? Your gear has no accuracy. If you buy Vanya, you're wasting materia just to get somewhat kinda close to the cap, where I can spend that materia on +Crit or +Det or other DD stats.

[Pentt]

People overrated Selene, her sspd buff is mediocre at best.