Originally Posted by
RapBreon
Spoiler: this whole game is math; sentinel alone is better than the picture, because it doesn't require extra healing to get you back to that EHP unlike the Warrior.
For all intents and purposes this (all really) game's reality IS maths.
These disingenuous attempts to claim theory-crafting is invalid due to *practicality* (which is synonymous with *reality* in this circumstance), which is then never backed up with any form of elaboration is pretty poor form. It's nonsensical rhetoric, that is quite frankly not too surprising to hear.
Try backing it up next time with some points, it'd be more interesting than you just attempting give a 'witty' one liner and jacking yourself off to how you 'smasht me' (I recognise there may be traces of irony here :P).
I think that original quote was more a jab at me but I'm not sure either way. Math is a GREAT tool and yes it is the basis of all game mechanics but it is not the end all and be all of game play. And since people around here LOVE their tests, I have a very simple, near fool-proof 3 step test you can run that proves this:
Step 1 - Get an equally geared WAR and PLD.
Step 2 - Have each one engage a mob of the same or higher level.
And the last and most important part of the test
Step 3 - Have both players put down the controller.
Now if you have performed this test correctly you will find that both classes perform equally poorly. While the game and all of it's mechanics are programmed with math, it is not until the HUMAN element is introduced that the math involved is given any purpose. In this case the classes are merely tools and a tool is only as efficient as the person using it. This is usually translated by the common saying it is the player that makes the class not the class that makes the player.
The other hole in theory crafting is the fact that they strip down so many mechanics to their smallest most rudimentary forms to make them fit in their simplified equations. To keep their numbers as pure as possible they create them in a vacuum and keep all the variables as uniformed as possible. And when you get into actual game play they very rarely follow the uniformed variables and have a more organic flow of battle. Sometimes the key to winning a battle is not sticking with the math but knowing when to take a gamble and how to capitalize on random opportunities. Whether its pulling back your healing from a string of lucky crits or dodges to adapt to a healer that is distracted in real life or getting hit with an AoE because of an unexpected lag spike. There are all sorts of random elements that occur during a battle. This is even more true for WAR and is why I enjoy playing them as their style of combat does have a more organic flow of battle. I have the exact same rotation every battle and the game plan can change in a single global cooldown. But is the game so complicated that every single opportunity and random event will have a huge impact on the fight? No which leads me to my next point.
Most over-zealous theory-crafters act as if you HAVE to be operating and maximum efficiency at ALL times to clear content. Yes, for some people maximizing efficiency and having fun are the same thing but that is not the case for everyone. There will always be two-sides the gaming coin. Fun vs Efficiency. There are those who play purely for fun, for example the the DRK's in FFXI who had /p "Tear my heart into pieces this is my....Last Resort!" macros. Did they care they were using Last Resort at the most inopportune times? No. All they care about is having fun and using all the 'kewl moves' that makes them feel like a badass. And on the other side of the spectrum you have your hardcore min/maxers who shun anything that isn't mathematically proven to be superior. The fact is BOTH sides have their flaws and the honest truth of it all is that most people don't fall on one side or the other but find themselves some where in the middle.
Most developers know this so they do not make content where you have to be 100% efficient to beat it. If all players are familiar with the fight mechanics and know their roles most content you can get away with operating at 60-75% efficiency and still be perfectly fine. After this 'efficiency cap' what determines a class being 'better' is subjective. If you enjoy easy gameplay with as little challenge as possible. Then yes... for your purposes PLD is better. But 'easy' is not fun for everyone. For me personally I am happy around the 80% mark its efficient enough to get things done in an orderly fashion but still flexible enough that I don't feel like a mindless robot executing stale-repetitive gameplay. I am in the casualcore group, I'm a hardcore player but i'm not willing to pass the point where it compromises my concept of what I find fun and enjoyable. And the fact is I am not the only one. For every person on here QQ'ing about WAR there is at least 2-3 others that are actually in the game enjoying the class as it is now. There are people clearing Coil with WAR and doing a good job of it who haven't done an ounce of math. Heck I know one WAR in one of my LS's that honestly is a much better WAR than I and when I try to talk shop with them about, how to maximuze damage per tp use and different stages of eHP of WAR she acts like I'm talking klingon but despite not knowing any math on the class they play it exceptionally well.
The sum it all up, just because something is the best or better option doesn't make it the ONLY option. There are lots of ways to play the game and different people have different goals, objectives and principles when it comes to gaming. Some people are willing to sacrifice a little efficiency if it means they can have more fun. Some people are willing to sacrifice a little fun if they can be more efficient. End of the day neither side is wrong. As far as I am concerned there is only two objectives people should be concerned with, if they can clear content and if they can have fun doing it. If you can do those two things no one has any right to tell you you are doing it wrong and if they do funk'em.
That analogy doesn't hold, because in this circumstance the Sedan (PLD) still out-performs the sports car (WAR). Sure the sports car is harder to drive, but it's plain inferior, who the hell buys a sports car worse than a Sedan?
Additionally, you may enjoy playing a WAR, more power to you. I personally, enjoy winning most of all, to borrow your analogy; I'll take the Sedan and learn (TBH I've already mastered WAR, but whatever) the sports cars nuances when it provides me with a benefit. That's my EPS right there. If you're chugging along on the street, sure performance don't mean shit, use the fun car. But if you're in a race, then you'll want the top performer.
Finally, and I hate (I really do) to bring this up. But mate, my Warrior was great fun right up until (H) Titan as well. As soon as I realised I became a liability, I stopped having so much fun, when I realised other people in my group may not appreciate me dragging them down due to my self-fish *but I wanna play WAR* attitude. This is a sacrifice I'm willing to make, because then I can demand my other group mates min-max as well, so it works for me.
I recognise this may be an alt (for the purposes of trapping people into an assumption), so ignore it if you have actual Coil experience and go about driving your (manual) Ford Laser.
Well this is where I have to touch on the above a little bit. "Performance' in this case is subjective. It depends on what you want to do with it. Honestly the family Sedan is much more stable machinery than a sports car. Sure they are fast and have the tuning and accessories required to handle going at those fast paces but for the average person when do you ever really need to exceed 100mph? Further more they are very fuel hungry and upkeep and repair is not a walk in the park. "Performance" in this analogy is all in WHAT you want the car to do and the tasks you want to be able to achieve with it. Sport cars cost more money than they are actually useful for. Yes, you can go really fast but that is more a luxury than a necessity.
In this case the 'Performance' is the fun factor of playing the class. For me, WAR is hands down A LOT more fun to play than PLD. But like a sport's car WAR that fun doesn't come without a price. It is harder to maintain, is very fuel efficient, and mistakes are more costly and easier to make. Ultimately it is a personal choice of what tank you decide to 'drive'. Like I said I have some cool ass daredevil healers who enjoy riding shotgun with my WAR, not everyone is allergic to having to put actual effort into things... and prepare yourself some people actually enjoy it. And honestly while a PLD can do the job much easier it doesn't mean a WAR is incapable of getting the job done. I have only found two occasions where WAR is a liability 1. If they are attempting to main tank in Coil. and 2. If the player/party allows it to be. Outside of that any capable WAR is able to make genuine contribution to clearing any and all content in the game.
I might as well tackle this while I'm at it. I enjoy working with my healers too, that's why I can tank a six stack Caduceus, because my healer and I work very well with each other. As a PLD I simply take it to the next level and ignore mechanics (hence the complaining, so broken), I still work...sort of XD.
@Bolded section, I agree. It still doesn't undo the simple disparity between the tanks.
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