[Dragoons] Should be spamming AoEs for max DPS

[Sabaoth]

If we're talking about running through things quickly, I use Doom Spike on 3+ targets all the time. As EasyModeX said, it is not TP efficient, but I've yet to come across a time where TP efficiency is a bigger goal than burning down groups fast. The only time I usually ever need to use Invigorate is when I Doom Spike spam.

I suppose a good middle ground is: if you have Invigorate up, spam Doom Spike. If you do not, then use HT + RoT.

[Cassandaria]

I think using doom spike in this manner is very much a bad idea. Sure, as a damage dealer, you goal is to bring the pain, but that doesn't matter if your own actions put others at risk. You make a tanks job way too difficult than it needs to be, ignore marks for more damage, make the healer have to over focus on either the tank or you (because you're likely finding yourself tanking the mobs now) and you hemorrhage TP like it was going out of style.

A damage dealer will only ever be as skilled as they are a team player, if your ability to bring those numbers makes everyone around you inefficient because they have to cater to your mistakes? You aren't being a team player and you're making it harder than it has to be.
Burning TP? now bards need to use paeon on you, dropping their own dps because you're stingy about your numbers. Spamming that aoe for the damage? now a tank can't really dps because they have to spam all of their hate building abilities to make up for your overzealousness. Actions like this drag an entire group down because you feel it's "all about the numbers".
It is, but it's about everyone's numbers, not just yours.

[EasymodeX]

If we're talking about running through things quickly, I use Doom Spike on 3+ targets all the time. As EasyModeX said, it is not TP efficient, but I've yet to come across a time where TP efficiency is a bigger goal than burning down groups fast.

It happens when you continue to chain pull :P.


For the OP:

Ignore the, apparently, dozens of scrubs posting in this thread. Anyone who uses CC in pretty much any dungeon in this game is bad. Sometimes it's ok for you to compensate for bads and let them CC. However, that is an anomaly and the baseline performance level should be CC=no.

You can feel confident that you're in the top 10% of intelligent players that attempt to optimize DPS for the situation at hand. In dungeons, that's generally ~3 mob pulls, where HT->ROT is more efficient than the single target sequence, with Doomspike as its own DPS/TPS balance.

[Hyrist]

While ideal on paper, the piratical application is a bit more complex.

The theory generated by the OP Guarantees positioning for all AoEs within the allotted course of time, not taken in DPS lost for lost targets (Enemy out of AoE) or set up requirement to land it. Testing this in a controlled circumstance is also near pointless as you are plainly controlling those variables, and Line AoEs are far more subject to them. So the calculations fall short compared to other methods decribed (Dotting multiple targets.) HT/ROT Rotation works in most circumstances in which you would place emphasis on AoEs more effectively than Doomspike, if you are going for pure AoE compositions.

There are also issues with the pragmatics of this circumstance for other members that have been mentioned. Hate maintenance is a major issue here as it can lead to lost DPS in other circumstances. A two step shift for an add to retarget the Dragoon due to pulling hate for any reason can mean the Summoner loses a Bane on an opponent, and the gained 160 potency of Damage is lost within the first two tics. Additionally, circumstances such as these completely ignores target prioritizing in circumstances in which the spike of damage coming from priority target can cause strain or failure on behalf of the tank or healer due to pressing against their defensive and restorative cooldowns, forcing them to defend against longer durations of higher DPS from the enemy group that dies faster, rather than a declining trend that is common among more single target or mixed tactic circumstances.

Essentially AoEs in the hands of a Dragoon are circumstantial. Yes. There are situations in which using them are optimal, but due to monster distribution, control of engagement, resource restriction, and damage lost in compensating for these issue, the advantage an AoE combat composition has on paper quickly disintegrates.

If you are going with this composition, make sure you are doing it with an organized team if you wish to make it effective, and be sure to still prioritize troublesome targets above distributed damage.

[EasymodeX]

Your SMN example is pretty fringe: the DRG pulling threat will rarely, if ever, cause a shift in mob placement since the DRG is already in melee (and then shift the mob's position enough to set them out of range of SMN AOEs).

Generally speaking, I can't recall any major target prioritization in any dungeon off the top of my head where you would want to drop the AOE cycle on 3+ to focus a single target first. In AK, the summoners will go down sufficiently quickly if you use them as the anchor for your HT+ROT. The succubi are pretty non-threatening if your tank isn't bad (and if he is, they are still not very threatening).

Then again, the only ones I've run recently are AK and WP.

The only considerations for AOE method are: (1) if the tank is moving erratically, so you may miss HT for the combo. That's kind of obnoxious. And; (2) Doom Spike can lose efficiency as you say due to mob positioning compared to ROT, which will generally hit grouped mobs more reliably. This is a tradeoff the player has to assess, though.

Given that the DRG can hit their parry buff (and Second Wind and Bloodbath), pulling aggro on 1-2 mobs is rarely a problem (unless the DRG is stupid and neglects to use those tools). If the tank is losing AOE threat from that alone, they are bad. You should be required to spike the AOE DPS with DFD in order to approach tank AOE threat.

[ShinigamiB06]

snip

I apologize ahead of time because i know that this will come off as arrogant, but I will say it nonetheless. A dps's role is to dps. A tank's role is to tank. And a healer's role is to heal. If I, as a dps, find a way to double my dps, then the tank and healer should respect that because that is my role. if my method makes it harder for tanks to do their job, then they need to step it up. Same goes for healer. Just because a method makes things a bit harder, it is not an excuse not to use that strategy. But dont get me wrong. There are also responsibilities that a dps has. That is why when i am using my aoe i constantly change my targets, and occasionally throw in single target combos. My strategy of using Doom Spike makes it more dificult for us too, but I am wiling to accept that responsibility for the sake of optimisation. Someone once told me that the world would be more efficient if everyone carried their own weight instead of trying to carry everyone else's.

But please dont misinterpret my tone. 90% of the time i just play the game for the fun of it. and i dont care if we dont use the "proper" mechanics and take an extra ~20 minutes in a dungeon. but the other 10% of the time i do want to challenge my intellect and skills...

[ShinigamiB06]

It happens when you continue to chain pull :P.


For the OP:

Ignore the, apparently, dozens of scrubs posting in this thread. Anyone who uses CC in pretty much any dungeon in this game is bad. Sometimes it's ok for you to compensate for bads and let them CC. However, that is an anomaly and the baseline performance level should be CC=no.

You can feel confident that you're in the top 10% of intelligent players that attempt to optimize DPS for the situation at hand. In dungeons, that's generally ~3 mob pulls, where HT->ROT is more efficient than the single target sequence, with Doomspike as its own DPS/TPS balance.

Thanks. I was starting to question my calculations, but you have reassured me!

[Cassandaria]

I apologize ahead of time because i know that this will come off as arrogant, but I will say it nonetheless. A dps's role is to dps. A tank's role is to tank. And a healer's role is to heal.

I get where you're coming from, but your role in a party isn't just to dps, you're role is also hate control, buff and debuff and improving the performance of everyone else in your party. You may feel this is carrying or "the right way" and that's not what I'm saying at all. What I AM saying is that if all you worry about is the numbers, that's shortsighted and only caters to your own enjoyment. MMO's are about groups, not individuals. You want to do the aoe thing? That's fine, but make sure the party you are working with is prepared for it. Heck, could be fun to do a party based around nothing but aoe. But don't feel that your job is that and everyone else needs to step up to your game level. Life doesn't work that way, neither do games.

[Alenore]

Heck, could be fun to do a party based around nothing but aoe.

All these wanderer's palace speed run prove it's far from fun

[Yiell]

{Looking for Members.} WP speed run need {bard} {dragoon} geared and must have +1?

nah...Bard/WHM/BLM/PLD can still do it. replacing any roles in this setup will increase the time needed to complete the dungeon.