The markets, stalls, price listing and undercutting. (A suggestion)

[darkstarpoet1]

i have no problems with people undercutting my prices. it's basic economics. as more people can make items the price is going to fall automatically. i have no problems selling my items. you have to learn to read the wards and if something gets cheaper than you can make an item then either move on or figure out how to produce the items cheaper. yes, your gil made does decrease, but anything is better than nothing.

to the people complaining about selling of out dated gear for cheap prices. if you buy a tv this year and decide to sell it when you get something nicer later do you try to get retail for it of just try to get it gone to get some of your money back? i personally throw it in the wards cheap and if it doesn't sell in a few weeks i npc it.

[Xenor]

i have no problems with people undercutting my prices. it's basic economics. as more people can make items the price is going to fall automatically. i have no problems selling my items. you have to learn to read the wards and if something gets cheaper than you can make an item then either move on or figure out how to produce the items cheaper. yes, your gil made does decrease, but anything is better than nothing.

Again, people don't undercut because of price. They undercut because they want their shit to sell first. I highly doubt the guy who just undercut my garnet rings by 1k cares about that 1k gil. 1k in this game is trash, it's like the 1p change you get at the shop in real life. He just wanted his to sell first. As a result I've had to drop mine by 2k. Not because I feel his are too expensive, but in retaliation for his childish game of "me me me please can i go first!1!". My mule will be sat by the wards waiting for him to do it again to respond quickly and efficiently.

[Shai]

And it hasn't been said in this thread yet, but most of these posts are entirely crying about how people aren't making as much money as they want to make and totally ignoring the buyer.

Yes, some one who wants to sell fast has dropped the price of your arrows by 5k through a series of undercutting wars. Think about this from the Archer's point of view who doesn't craft and only makes his gil from questing, leves, selling drops to NPC or maybe the rare farming for rare items to sell in the wards. It's his lucky day that this process exists!

The system works well as long as RMT don't get involved and/or legit players don't organize an effort to control products. Even if they did, though, there's a breaking point for all buyers. If you control all silver arrows and raise the price by 20k, there's a fair chance that buyers won't put up with that and a more stable, reasonable price will be found - especially if you want to sell more than you're buying up as people undercut you all day.

This market transparency works quite a bit better than the blind auction of FFXI. I know there are several varieties of AH out there now, but the Wards is clearly a better working economy than the XI auction house (which was subject to all kinds of abuse because you couldn't really see much behind the scenes).

[darkstarpoet1]

Again, people don't undercut because of price. They undercut because they want their shit to sell first. I highly doubt the guy who just undercut my garnet rings by 1k cares about that 1k gil. 1k in this game is trash, it's like the 1p change you get at the shop in real life. He just wanted his to sell first. As a result I've had to drop mine by 2k. Not because I feel his are too expensive, but in retaliation for his childish game of "me me me please can i go first!1!". My mule will be sat by the wards waiting for him to do it again to respond quickly and efficiently.

isn't any market about moving your product as fast and efficiently as possible? it doesn't matter if one sell makes me 10k if by lowering the price i can sell 5x as many of that product and still make 10k profit. if i can gather and produce the item cheaper than it is being sold and make gil while skilling up you're right i am going to sell it for less.

[Peregrine]

Again, people don't undercut because of price. They undercut because they want their shit to sell first. I highly doubt the guy who just undercut my garnet rings by 1k cares about that 1k gil. 1k in this game is trash, it's like the 1p change you get at the shop in real life. He just wanted his to sell first. As a result I've had to drop mine by 2k. Not because I feel his are too expensive, but in retaliation for his childish game of "me me me please can i go first!1!". My mule will be sat by the wards waiting for him to do it again to respond quickly and efficiently.

Garnet rings should be worth less than the cost of a raw garnet on the market. The value of it has already been spent elsewhere. Garnet rings are a SP grind material, not a desired finished product. As such, it's unreasonable to expect them to hold any economic weight.

I sell NQ T2 rings on the street for NPC selling price, and if I don't get any takers they go to NPC. That's what they're worth. 5k.

A garnet ring is a waste of a sales slot. That's why people put them up for nothing. They just want them GONE because they have more to grind out.

People who whine about undercutters are players who insisited on killing FFXI mobs for 300 sp every 4 minutes instead of crushing mobs for 150 sp every 50 seconds simply because the first number is bigger.

It's about SP per hour. It's about gil per day. I sold a +1 heavy crowsbeak hammer, the endgame blacksmith hammer, for 500k. Took 3 weeks on the market for a new crafter to level into it. That's not efficient. Only reason I still do it is because it's garbage to me and I was going for a +2 or 3 for myself.

You can sell a pair of garnet rings a week at what you think you deserve, or you can sell a dozen a week at ridiculously low prices. Only reason a R50 goldsmither is even still making T2 rings is to play the futures HQ market, and in that case even more reason that NQ rings should be worth nothing in this market.

Crafters can't sit there and expect to compete with a guy grinding on garnet rings for his last two levels of goldsmithing. Don't pick fights you can never win.

[Xenor]

isn't any market about moving your product as fast and efficiently as possible? it doesn't matter if one sell makes me 10k if by lowering the price i can sell 5x as many of that product and still make 10k profit. if i can gather and produce the item cheaper than it is being sold and make gil while skilling up you're right i am going to sell it for less.

But you aren't going to sell it faster by undercutting me because I'm going to come along and undercut you and camp the wards with my alt waiting for you to come back. If you list it at the same price then you'll have a chance at selling some and average as many sales as me rather than forcing me to take every sale infront of you through your rude behaviour. I never undercut someone who lists something the same price as me, even if it puts their name above mine. If you've only got a few of an item and I've got a stack and you just want rid of it because it's not your market that's cool with me too. People will pay the extra for convenience if they want more than a few.

Garnet rings should be worth less than the cost of a raw garnet on the market. The value of it has already been spent elsewhere. Garnet rings are a SP grind material, not a desired finished product. As such, it's unreasonable to expect them to hold any economic weight.

I sell NQ T2 rings on the street for NPC selling price, and if I don't get any takers they go to NPC. That's what they're worth. 5k.

A garnet ring is a waste of a sales slot. That's why people put them up for nothing. They just want them GONE because they have more to grind out.

People who whine about undercutters are players who insisited on killing FFXI mobs for 300 sp every 4 minutes instead of crushing mobs for 150 sp every 50 seconds simply because the first number is bigger.

It's about SP per hour. It's about gil per day. I sold a +1 heavy crowsbeak hammer, the endgame blacksmith hammer, for 500k. Took 3 weeks on the market for a new crafter to level into it. That's not efficient. Only reason I still do it is because it's garbage to me and I was going for a +2 or 3 for myself.

You can sell a pair of garnet rings a week at what you think you deserve, or you can sell a dozen a week at ridiculously low prices. Only reason a R50 goldsmither is even still making T2 rings is to play the futures HQ market, and in that case even more reason that NQ rings should be worth nothing in this market.

Crafters can't sit there and expect to compete with a guy grinding on garnet rings for his last two levels of goldsmithing. Don't pick fights you can never win.

You have a point about T2 rings, however I don't value them all equally. Garnet and Amethyst rings have always held a lot more value than the other four. I wouldn't even waste my time making the others unless someone wanted one. I almost skilled up on them too but due to the cost of electrum I decided silver franciscas was better. Still surprised you aren't doing them. Red coral breastpin is a good alternative too which I didn't know about back then. But yeah I have NPCed Heliodor and Peridot rings in my time as well.

Believe it or not but Garnet and Amethyst rings still sell reasonable well for 50-70k in the wards while HQs can get you 300k. That's why I still make them. HQ rate isn't too terrible. But they're just a filler slot on my retainers because I had nothing else to put there. Those two rings aren't the trash you make them out to be lol. I don't think it's people skilling up on them trying to list them in the wards because I don't see the market flood you'd expect.

The majority of people mine Halatali for gold which results in Heliodor rings or Iron Lake for iron which results in Aquamarine rings. Peridots have always been worthless. Very few people decide to mine up in Dragonhead and Treespeak isn't common due to the problems with the goblin NM so Amethyst, Garnet and to some extent Goshenite rings have held some value. There's often times when there's none of those rings in the wards. That's when I come along. Others have caught on now however so I'll be going back out of that market. Got to be opportunistic with these things.