PLD is a waste on anything other than Titan and Coil.

[Lord_Zlatan]

@Giantbane

I understand that.

Perhaps I was being to general. From what I've read (I have yet to do anything challenging with a warrior in the party) WARs need a buff of some kind. However, if what others are saying is true, that you can stack STR and beast mode through a lot of farm status content, then WARs have a purpose after all, even if it is in a limited context.

Give it time, and there will be reasons to use and not to use either on all content. The game definitely needs a bit more balancing. I applaud the OP for thinking outside the box and trying something that seams to be working for him. That does not mean that it is a tried and true method that will work for everyone.

Perhaps its time to just hit 50 and then roll a WAR to see what this is all about.

[Vmage]

Wait, wait, wait, guys... Can someone explain again why WAR does more dmg than PLD?

Haven't seen anything on paper that actually points to this.

sure, although that's really only true while they're "dpsing" and not while they're tanking bosses

Butcher's-Block is 280 potency vs. Rage-of-Halone at 260

they'll also get an Inner-Beast every 2-3 full butcher block combos, at 300 potency, while the paladin is still running through his halone combo

warrior also has their Maim combo for 20% more damage dealt + Storm's-Eye for an effective 11.1% increased damage from slashing (reduces resistance from 100 to 90) compared to paladin's Sword-Oath which adds a 50 potency weaponskill hit to every autoattack (you'd think this means increasing autoattack damage by 50%, but that's not the case as the formula for autoattacks and weaponskills are different, you'll see autoattacks doing ~50 damage and the sword oath hit doing ~37)

paladins have Spirits-Within at 300 potency off the gcd, and Circle-of-Scorn at 250 potency off the gcd to help bridge the gap created by maim + storm's eye vs. warrior's Brutal-Swing at 50 potency off the gcd - their cooldowns are pretty much the same, 30 for brutal/spirits and 25 for circle

essentially, the higher potency on butcher's block and maim + storm's eye beat out sword oath and the higher potency on spirits/circle

but not by much, you're looking at less than a 5% margin tops

which is probably why Shield-Oath reduces paladin damage by 20%, and Defiance reduces warrior damage by 25%

this is why they do the same dps while tanking

although, if we're talking trash packs in dungeons it's way simpler to understand why warrior does more damage than a paladin - Overpower does some damage, Flash does none

that's still not really an argument to use warrior over paladins for faster clearing though, the superior mitigation of a paladin means that your healer will spend more time casting stone2 + holy/bio+bio2+miasma+bane+shadowflare etc.. rather than curing

and scholar/whitemage cleric stance dps blows away paladin and warrior dps, whether we're talking about single target or aoe.

[Hachiko]

@Giantbane

I understand that.

Perhaps I was being to general. From what I've read (I have yet to do anything challenging with a warrior in the party) WARs need a buff of some kind. However, if what others are saying is true, that you can stack STR and beast mode through a lot of farm status content, then WARs have a purpose after all, even if it is in a limited context.

Yes, what a good tradeoff:

Instead of being viable for challenging progression content, I can clear Wanderer's Palace 3 minutes faster than a PLD. Totally worth it.

[Jonjey]

Yes, what a good tradeoff:

Instead of being viable for challenging progression content, I can clear Wanderer's Palace 3 minutes faster than a PLD. Totally worth it.

It adds up. Also if your grouped with a bunch of 5/5 AF, pink weapon wielding beasts in DF, you can carry them on damage, PLD can't do that.
And pretending that everyone in the game isn't doing that "less worthy" content Monday til whenever they cap out isn't going to make the argument less viable.

[Amyas]

that's still not really an argument to use warrior over paladins for faster clearing though, the superior mitigation of a paladin means that your healer will spend more time casting stone2 + holy/bio+bio2+miasma+bane+shadowflare etc.. rather than curing

.

ehh if a whm is holy-bombing, even as a war, you shouldn't need to be cured much, if at all.

[dandelions]

OP = bad troll and shitty player.

DPS difference between warrior and pally is <10% when stats are allocated same way and both players are equal in skill. Pally has been parsing higher when both are in offensive stances and in a party together (Pally benefits from 10% slash debuff that Warrior applies).

So besides being full of shit about Warrios damage, here are some things you can do with vastly superior mitigation/CD's of PLD that will make Warriors cry (yes, you'll always clear instances slower than a group with smart/good PLD):

Tank 3 or more packs consistently for mass aoe; alternatively skip more packs for death/res fast clear strategy. Warriors can't compete on clear times for this.

Or, take an average group. If the PLD requires less healing, that means healers can DPS between heals. Healer DPS > 10% differences between equally skilled WAR/PLD.


It all comes down to the fact that the small damage difference between the two can always be easily made up in damage from other party members when tank requires less healing. Then add all the crazy shit you can pull off with great defensive CD's and superior mitigation.

[Jonjey]

stuff

ITT: People who don't know what they're talking about telling people they don't know what they're talking about.
Really informative stuff there champ.

[oceanlord]

ITT: People who don't know what they're talking about telling people they don't know what they're talking about.
Really informative stuff there champ.

thats you btw

[Jonjey]

thats you btw

I don't know much, I just know I outparse DD's constantly while on WAR acting as a DD rather than a tank. I also can eat hits that other DD's never could. I also can hold adds like other DD's never could. I'm just going by the parser, not by bullshit numbers being thrown around in attempts to prove one thing or another like everyone in this thread has attempted to do.

[Jonjey]

I can't say that a perfectly geared, perfectly performed WAR DD will out parse a perfectly geared, perfectly performed MNK or DRG, all I can say is that my skill leads me to out parse many a mnk or drg, most of which did have better gear than me as I was in peltast/hoplite with full DL STR accessories, while they were in mostly DL mnk or drg gear. Some with relics, some without. Maybe I'm just a really good player, which I'm neither confirming or denying, all I know is that the parser is the only way we have to really determine your status within the party you are in, and I constantly parse first or second, if second usually because the person got to use an LB, which I'm not discrediting, I can't use braver on WAR, that's where MNK and DRG outshine WAR any day. In Titan if I were to screw up, which I very rarely do, and get hit by a bomb or pool, I can easily survive it on WAR DPS.